For those who love African swords

Lew · 26th February 2010, 12:21 PM

Gav

A very nice example but what makes this a chieftains status sword?

Lew

Gavin Nugent · 26th February 2010, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Gav

A very nice example but what makes this a chieftains status sword?

Lew

Thanks Lew and a great question. Perhaps I should refrain from Chieftan and use Wealthy or person of High Standing, either could be a Chieftan though ;-)

One reference I was cited by a fellow collector here was "Christian Feest; The art of war", stating "These swords were the exclusive prerogative of Mandinka men of importance or social standing"

I look forward to further comments and insight from those more learned on the subject of African swords.

Gav

Lew · 26th February 2010, 01:58 PM

Gav

This is one that I have is a bit plainer than yours but with an old European blade.

Gavin Nugent · 26th February 2010, 11:27 PM

Another nice example Lew.

I like the broad blade too Lew, it remains in very good order. The blade on the piece I presented, if wasn't curved has the feel of a rapier, light, supple and lightning fast in the hand.

There is a lot to be learned about these swords, not yet covered in these pages and I look forward to learning more too. One question that comes to mind is the pommel...a pyramid where most are globes or do not exist?

I believe from conversations had with another in the European forum, the blade would be from from France, 1820-1860s. Wether it was a trade blade from this time and mounted then (I doubt), or wether once it had seen active military service was decommisioned and then made a trade blade agter the 1860s (sits better with me) I do not know.

I do know it is old and when I lifted it off the table after the photograph it certainly left the dust of Africa behind. Any ideas about yours Lew?

Gav

Lew · 27th February 2010, 12:25 AM

Gav

Mine looks like it came from a 1796 Light Cavalry Saber? Here is another one I traded some time ago with a slimmer blade like yours.

Gavin Nugent · 27th February 2010, 01:50 AM

Great Lew, another nice example.

One question that has come to mind whilst I have been image comparing is the hemispheres attached to these. Lew, I note on the example you presented to start there are many hemispeheres and they are found at the end of the suspension loop near the scabbard....I have witnessed this else where on other more plain examples but when you look at mine and the piece you traded they are found only as a pair and on their own loop and toggle together. Does anyone know what is signifies?

Gav

Jim McDougall · 27th February 2010, 03:21 AM

These are all outstanding examples of these swords attributed to the Mandinka (also Mandingo, Malinke) tribal groups of the Sahara, with Mali in particular.
Gav, this is one of the most beautifully accoutred examples I have seen, and it is my impression that this, along with many of these, are mounted with M1822 French cavalry sabre blades. These regions were of course long occupied by the French and by the end of the 19th century French protectorates.

In Mali, most significant is Timbuktu ( tin= well, buqtu=far away) which was for centuries actually a Saharan cultural center as well as a key hub for transSaharan trade routes. The merchants of this and other key trade locations of these trade networks were known as 'Dyoula' (Mande=merchant) and were undoubtedly of the upper social stature that might wear such embellished sabres as a mark of thier standing.

The profound presence of the French of course must have provided large numbers of surplus French cavalry blades in these centers, as well as the numbers of trade blades that prevailed via these trade routes. It has always been my personal opinion that these cylindrically themed guardless sabres probably derived from the Omani kattaras which had entered the Saharan trade sphere from the Zanzibar sultanate either via Red Sea or direct routes.
The dramatically embellished and festooned mounts no doubt emphasize the standing of the merchant or perhaps tribal figure, so although not specifically the weapon of a 'chieftain' , certainly that of a powerful individual.

All best regards,
Jim

26th February 2010, 01:58 PM	#3
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Gav This is one that I have is a bit plainer than yours but with an old European blade. Attached Images

26th February 2010, 11:27 PM	#4
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Nice Another nice example Lew. I like the broad blade too Lew, it remains in very good order. The blade on the piece I presented, if wasn't curved has the feel of a rapier, light, supple and lightning fast in the hand. There is a lot to be learned about these swords, not yet covered in these pages and I look forward to learning more too. One question that comes to mind is the pommel...a pyramid where most are globes or do not exist? I believe from conversations had with another in the European forum, the blade would be from from France, 1820-1860s. Wether it was a trade blade from this time and mounted then (I doubt), or wether once it had seen active military service was decommisioned and then made a trade blade agter the 1860s (sits better with me) I do not know. I do know it is old and when I lifted it off the table after the photograph it certainly left the dust of Africa behind. Any ideas about yours Lew? Gav

27th February 2010, 12:25 AM	#5
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Gav Mine looks like it came from a 1796 Light Cavalry Saber? Here is another one I traded some time ago with a slimmer blade like yours. Attached Images

27th February 2010, 01:50 AM	#6
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Another nice example Great Lew, another nice example. One question that has come to mind whilst I have been image comparing is the hemispheres attached to these. Lew, I note on the example you presented to start there are many hemispeheres and they are found at the end of the suspension loop near the scabbard....I have witnessed this else where on other more plain examples but when you look at mine and the piece you traded they are found only as a pair and on their own loop and toggle together. Does anyone know what is signifies? Gav

26th February 2010, 12:21 PM	#1
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Gav A very nice example but what makes this a chieftains status sword? Lew

27th February 2010, 03:21 AM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,353	These are all outstanding examples of these swords attributed to the Mandinka (also Mandingo, Malinke) tribal groups of the Sahara, with Mali in particular. Gav, this is one of the most beautifully accoutred examples I have seen, and it is my impression that this, along with many of these, are mounted with M1822 French cavalry sabre blades. These regions were of course long occupied by the French and by the end of the 19th century French protectorates. In Mali, most significant is Timbuktu ( tin= well, buqtu=far away) which was for centuries actually a Saharan cultural center as well as a key hub for transSaharan trade routes. The merchants of this and other key trade locations of these trade networks were known as 'Dyoula' (Mande=merchant) and were undoubtedly of the upper social stature that might wear such embellished sabres as a mark of thier standing. The profound presence of the French of course must have provided large numbers of surplus French cavalry blades in these centers, as well as the numbers of trade blades that prevailed via these trade routes. It has always been my personal opinion that these cylindrically themed guardless sabres probably derived from the Omani kattaras which had entered the Saharan trade sphere from the Zanzibar sultanate either via Red Sea or direct routes. The dramatically embellished and festooned mounts no doubt emphasize the standing of the merchant or perhaps tribal figure, so although not specifically the weapon of a 'chieftain' , certainly that of a powerful individual. All best regards, Jim