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Old 18th February 2010, 05:39 PM   #1
chregu
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Default one more keris #3

hello together
since the Certificates have to be another keris.
am also looking for this piece all the information I can get, old, origin, style,
........
gruss chregu
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Last edited by Rick : 19th February 2010 at 08:09 PM.
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Old 18th February 2010, 06:14 PM   #2
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Hi Chrugu,

This type is what the cal madura keris.

Maybe its brougt back in the 50,s by a soldier.



Regards,

Danny
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Old 18th February 2010, 07:07 PM   #3
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The wrongko style is called Gabilan if I recall correctly .
Very nice carving .
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Old 19th February 2010, 05:15 AM   #4
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nice
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Old 19th February 2010, 03:34 PM   #5
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i have patrem madura keris that has the same characteristics.

total length 31cm/12.2 in.
blade length 17cm/6.7 in.

it has 3 empu "thumbprints"

(comments are welkom)
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Old 19th February 2010, 06:45 PM   #6
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Sirek,
nice old keris. Hilt and wrangka are worn out as we very seldom see.
Surprisingly the pendok seems to have no bruise.
Unfortunately finger prints are not visible.
The blade seems very rusted in the crack: I would definitely eliminate rust before seeing the blade destroyed.
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Old 19th February 2010, 10:23 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chregu
hello together
since the Certificates have to be another keris.
am also looking for this piece all the information I can get, old, origin, style,
........
gruss chregu



Hello chregu,

yes it's a Madura keris and the sheat form is called jurigan or gambilihan like Rick write. Keris like this have been discussed already some times here, search for, you will get some more informations. It's good possible that the keris older then from the 50's. Would be nice to see the blade with a fresh warangan again. Here a very similar keris from my collection.

Detlef
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Old 19th February 2010, 11:47 PM   #8
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Nice examples guys.
I like the Gabilan scabbards; they are so expressive, almost over the top .
I love the detail in well done Madura carving .

A very interesting mendak Sirek; love the wear and the Iras wilah .
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Old 20th February 2010, 01:21 PM   #9
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thanks for your comments

it is difficult to capture the "thumbprints" in a picture, (in the red circles)
maybay you can see it better on the picture taken of the side.

The medak cames with te keris, and because I never seen this form before I doubt about it in the first place if it was a real mendak.
But the cup-shape fits good on the hilt, so in my opinion maybe a local artist has given his own inspiration on this one.
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Old 20th February 2010, 02:58 PM   #10
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That mendak is actually pretty unusual and nice in my opinion .
No matter that it is missing some stones .

Sirek, since you've had the handle off; what does the end of the pesi look like ?
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Old 20th February 2010, 05:09 PM   #11
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this is how the peksi looks like:

the length is 5cm/ 2in.
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Old 20th February 2010, 05:10 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Sirek, since you've had the handle off; what does the end of the pesi look like ?

Wondering if it's got a hole in it's end Rick?
Thanks for pointing out the blade is a picit Sirek. You are right, it was hard to notice and i missed that the first time around. I really like this one, though i will second the suggestion that you wash the blade or at least eliminate the rust.
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Old 20th February 2010, 05:12 PM   #13
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Well that answers that. I guess we were pointing at the at the same time Sirek.
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Old 20th February 2010, 07:02 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
The wrongko style is called Gabilan if I recall correctly .
Very nice carving .


Maduranese call Deng udengan / Urang urangan for this kind of warangka's style.
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Old 21st February 2010, 06:25 AM   #15
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Hullo everybody,

Brekele, a nice nick/handle. German or Eastern Java? If Eastern Java, does it bear any relationship to 'shining' and 'bamboo'? (Just curious )

Best,
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Old 21st February 2010, 07:38 AM   #16
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Default mendak

hello all,

it is probably part of a javanese earstud. a subang or suweng. these earstuds are put together from several parts. this looks like the ring with the stones around the central stone. see the photo. a 'screw' holds the parts normally together. many of them are torn apart for the stones. sometimes diamonds, intan, glass etc. i hope it (photo) is clear enough.

greetings ron
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Old 21st February 2010, 09:54 AM   #17
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Thanks Ron for clear up this mystery mendak

The part that is used as a mendak does seem indeed a part of such earplug, that explains also the cup form.

but because it is still a culture item from the region, I let him be and will not replaced him for another mendak.

(normal mendaks are also too large)
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Old 21st February 2010, 08:55 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul
Hullo everybody,

Brekele, a nice nick/handle. German or Eastern Java? If Eastern Java, does it bear any relationship to 'shining' and 'bamboo'? (Just curious )

Best,




This is other example of warangka Deng Udengan (Shape of shrimp) with central carved motif called Rangkerangan (shell & snail?). The hilt’s style is called Tumenggungan , It’s a symbol of Kuda Panuli (Panuli horse).

@Amuk Murugul : I stil dont get it really about your questions.
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Old 21st February 2010, 10:17 PM   #19
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Here is a more recent edition of this sheath form with a flying horse hilt, mid-late 20th century most likely.
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Old 21st February 2010, 10:58 PM   #20
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I believe the hilt of this keris madura is new style (modern style) . Because most all of maduranese keris has only symbol’s shape of animals.
For example Donoriko hilt, It’s syimbolize of Gajah (Elephant) or Kojuk Renget hilt , The hilt that symbolize of Kutilang Bersiul (Kutilang = Name of bird , Bersiul = whistle )
and many other hilts.
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Old 22nd February 2010, 04:08 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brekele
I believe the hilt of this keris madura is new style (modern style) . Because most all of maduranese keris has only symbol’s shape of animals.

Yes Brekele, mid-late 20th century (as stated) would indeed make this hilt contemporary...
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Old 22nd February 2010, 07:15 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brekele
This is other example of warangka Deng Udengan (Shape of shrimp) with central carved motif called Rangkerangan (shell & snail?). The hilt’s style is called Tumenggungan , It’s a symbol of Kuda Panuli (Panuli horse).

@Amuk Murugul : I stil dont get it really about your questions.

It seems to have a beautiful patina.Congraturation
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Old 22nd February 2010, 10:17 AM   #23
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Brekele, from your posts I have formed the opinion that you are very familiar with the Madurese language and with Madurese keris related terminology .

You have told us that the name used in Madura for the type of warangka shown here is either deng udengan or urang urangan.

I have noted that over the last 10 or 15 years names and attributes used by some sellers of principally Madurese keris have varied from names and attributes that I became acquainted with in the years between 1985 and 1995, when I visited both Sumenep and Pamekesan on a number of occasions

For instance, at that time, the capu kagok form of ladrangan warangka was acknowledged as a legitimate Madurese form, shared with Surakarta, however, now I find that some people wish to place this form in East Jawa, and call it an East Javanese Ladrangan.

The Sumenep Ladrangan form was referred to as a Ladrangan back prior to 1995, however, I now find that some people want to call it Daunan --- in other words, a warangka with a "daun", referring to the wide leaf shaped projection of a ladrangan warangka.

During my visits to Sumenep I visited the Karaton musium on a number of occasions. In that musium there were examples of various types of warangkas attributable to Sumenep. Two of those warangkas were identified as "gabilan", and "brahmana rsi". These warangka types were the only types on display with heavily carved atasans, and the most easily recognisable difference between them was that the brahmana rsi form was a little larger than the gabilan form.

Before reading your recent posts, I would have been inclined to identify the warangkas shown in posts 1, 7, 18, and 19 as gabilan, and the warangka shown in post 5 as sandang walikat.

Now, my question to you is this:-

can you please explain the difference between the warangkas that you have identified as either deng udengan or urang urangan, and the warangkas of the forms gabilan and brahmana rsi

or perhaps what we are looking at is a language level variation?

a variation where in lower level language "deng udengan" is used, and in the language of the court uses "gabilan" ?

As your knowledge of the Madurese language is clearly far in advance of my own, and I assume most other people here, I would greatly appreciate it if could clarify this matter for us.

Thank you.
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Old 22nd February 2010, 12:59 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

or perhaps what we are looking at is a language level variation?

a variation where in lower level language "deng udengan" is used, and in the language of the court uses "gabilan" ?




Dear Alan .
Gabilan is actually word that maduranese call it for keris Gayaman’s style..
So, Javanese called gayaman and maduranese say Gabilan.
If you bring javanene keris with gayaman style and show it to old maduranese people…they will say your keris warangka’s style is “Gabilan Jawa”, but young maduranese will say “Gayaman Jawa”. IMHO, I think this is because now many young Maduranese learn keris from books which is influenced a lot by Javanese Keris writer.
But javanenese keris (gayaman style) compare gayaman style of maduranese keris is only a bit different looks. Maduranese Gabilan, sampir part is a bit bigger, somehow it seems not match looking between gandar size and sampir size.

Warangka “Kongbukongan” is a warangka that syimbolize from burung betet ( parrot bird ).
There is also “Canmacanan” style. It’s a style of warangka with tiger’s wood carved.
But finally I have no pictures now for both of warangka, I’ll post it maybe tomorrow.
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Old 22nd February 2010, 01:43 PM   #25
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Here I try to attach 3 pictures of different style of maduranese warangka.

First warangka’s style is called ladrangan Nongko , because sampir shape was taken from daun pohon nangka’s shape (Jackfruit’s leaf).

Second warangka’s style is called ladrangan sukun , taken from daun sukun’s shape (Artocarpus communis leaf).

3th, Warangka’s style is called “Lanbulanan”, taken from shape of bulan sabit (Half moon).

First and second pictures, shown Janggelan hilt.

Janggelan is taken from the shape of “Ampas buah Jagung” (inside of corn fruit that has been take out all of the corn’s seed), oh…sorry for my English for the last explanation about “Corn”, because difficult word for "Ampas Jagung" to find in English dictionary.
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Old 22nd February 2010, 04:36 PM   #26
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I think the english word you are looking for is ' cob ' Brekele .
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Old 22nd February 2010, 05:14 PM   #27
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Yes Rick, your are 100% right.
Janggelan hilt shape is taken from "Cob".
Thank you Rick.
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Old 22nd February 2010, 08:37 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brekele
Here I try to attach 3 pictures of different style of maduranese warangka.

First warangka’s style is called ladrangan Nongko , because sampir shape was taken from daun pohon nangka’s shape (Jackfruit’s leaf).



Thank you Brekele, all is very informative. And I think now is also clear from where the name daunan orginate from.

Detlef
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Old 22nd February 2010, 09:05 PM   #29
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Thank you very much for your prompt and informative response, Brekele.

So, we can take "gabilan" as the Madurese equivalent for "gayaman".

However, this raises for me the question as to why prior to 1995, my enquiries in Sumenep and Pamekesan indicated that the Javanese wrongkos that I know as gayaman were also identified by Madurese people as gayaman, but the heavily carved form such as was on display in the kraton musium was identified as gabilan. This was between 15 and 25 years ago, and at that time, most of the people I spoke with were not young men, but people of around my own age, or perhaps a little older, similarly, 15-25 years ago the plethora of keris books that have now flooded the market, did not exist.

In my previous post I mentioned the brahmana rsi form.

Do you know this form?


Moving to the ladrangan form.

You have shown two forms of ladrangan wrongko, each with a further classificatory name. This seems to indicate that the classification of "ladrangan" is still alive and well in Madura, and if this is so, then why do we now so often see these Madura ladrangans described as "daunan"?

The ladrangan from timoho, that you identify as ladrangan sukun was identified by several informants in Madura, pre-1995, as capu kagok. Incidentally, has the daun on this warangka been shortened because of repair? Proportion is is not good. Or is this a photographic distortion?


Rick, "ampas jagung" is actually more than just "corn cob". "Ampas" means waste or residue after all the good stuff has been removed, jagung is the corn, so ampas jagung is the corn cob that has been stripped of its seed.
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Old 22nd February 2010, 09:12 PM   #30
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Thank you Alan, that was what I thought .
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