one more keris

brekele · 21st February 2010, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

Hullo everybody,

Brekele, a nice nick/handle. German or Eastern Java? If Eastern Java, does it bear any relationship to 'shining' and 'bamboo'? (Just curious

)

Best,

This is other example of warangka Deng Udengan (Shape of shrimp) with central carved motif called Rangkerangan (shell & snail?). The hilt’s style is called Tumenggungan , It’s a symbol of Kuda Panuli (Panuli horse).

@Amuk Murugul : I stil dont get it really about your questions.

David · 21st February 2010, 10:17 PM

Here is a more recent edition of this sheath form with a flying horse hilt, mid-late 20th century most likely.

brekele · 21st February 2010, 10:58 PM

I believe the hilt of this keris madura is new style (modern style) . Because most all of maduranese keris has only symbol’s shape of animals.
For example Donoriko hilt, It’s syimbolize of Gajah (Elephant) or Kojuk Renget hilt , The hilt that symbolize of Kutilang Bersiul (Kutilang = Name of bird , Bersiul = whistle )
and many other hilts.

David · 22nd February 2010, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brekele

I believe the hilt of this keris madura is new style (modern style) . Because most all of maduranese keris has only symbol’s shape of animals.

Yes Brekele, mid-late 20th century (as stated) would indeed make this hilt contemporary...

Marcokeris · 22nd February 2010, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brekele

This is other example of warangka Deng Udengan (Shape of shrimp) with central carved motif called Rangkerangan (shell & snail?). The hilt’s style is called Tumenggungan , It’s a symbol of Kuda Panuli (Panuli horse).

@Amuk Murugul : I stil dont get it really about your questions.

It seems to have a beautiful patina.Congraturation

A. G. Maisey · 22nd February 2010, 10:17 AM

Brekele, from your posts I have formed the opinion that you are very familiar with the Madurese language and with Madurese keris related terminology .

You have told us that the name used in Madura for the type of warangka shown here is either deng udengan or urang urangan.

I have noted that over the last 10 or 15 years names and attributes used by some sellers of principally Madurese keris have varied from names and attributes that I became acquainted with in the years between 1985 and 1995, when I visited both Sumenep and Pamekesan on a number of occasions

For instance, at that time, the capu kagok form of ladrangan warangka was acknowledged as a legitimate Madurese form, shared with Surakarta, however, now I find that some people wish to place this form in East Jawa, and call it an East Javanese Ladrangan.

The Sumenep Ladrangan form was referred to as a Ladrangan back prior to 1995, however, I now find that some people want to call it Daunan --- in other words, a warangka with a "daun", referring to the wide leaf shaped projection of a ladrangan warangka.

During my visits to Sumenep I visited the Karaton musium on a number of occasions. In that musium there were examples of various types of warangkas attributable to Sumenep. Two of those warangkas were identified as "gabilan", and "brahmana rsi". These warangka types were the only types on display with heavily carved atasans, and the most easily recognisable difference between them was that the brahmana rsi form was a little larger than the gabilan form.

Before reading your recent posts, I would have been inclined to identify the warangkas shown in posts 1, 7, 18, and 19 as gabilan, and the warangka shown in post 5 as sandang walikat.

Now, my question to you is this:-

can you please explain the difference between the warangkas that you have identified as either deng udengan or urang urangan, and the warangkas of the forms gabilan and brahmana rsi

or perhaps what we are looking at is a language level variation?

a variation where in lower level language "deng udengan" is used, and in the language of the court uses "gabilan" ?

As your knowledge of the Madurese language is clearly far in advance of my own, and I assume most other people here, I would greatly appreciate it if could clarify this matter for us.

Thank you.

brekele · 22nd February 2010, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

or perhaps what we are looking at is a language level variation?

a variation where in lower level language "deng udengan" is used, and in the language of the court uses "gabilan" ?

Dear Alan .
Gabilan is actually word that maduranese call it for keris Gayaman’s style..
So, Javanese called gayaman and maduranese say Gabilan.
If you bring javanene keris with gayaman style and show it to old maduranese people…they will say your keris warangka’s style is “Gabilan Jawa”, but young maduranese will say “Gayaman Jawa”. IMHO, I think this is because now many young Maduranese learn keris from books which is influenced a lot by Javanese Keris writer.
But javanenese keris (gayaman style) compare gayaman style of maduranese keris is only a bit different looks. Maduranese Gabilan, sampir part is a bit bigger, somehow it seems not match looking between gandar size and sampir size.

Warangka “Kongbukongan” is a warangka that syimbolize from burung betet ( parrot bird ).
There is also “Canmacanan” style. It’s a style of warangka with tiger’s wood carved.
But finally I have no pictures now for both of warangka, I’ll post it maybe tomorrow.

brekele · 22nd February 2010, 01:43 PM

Here I try to attach 3 pictures of different style of maduranese warangka.

First warangka’s style is called ladrangan Nongko , because sampir shape was taken from daun pohon nangka’s shape (Jackfruit’s leaf).

Second warangka’s style is called ladrangan sukun , taken from daun sukun’s shape (Artocarpus communis leaf).

3th, Warangka’s style is called “Lanbulanan”, taken from shape of bulan sabit (Half moon).

First and second pictures, shown Janggelan hilt.

Janggelan is taken from the shape of “Ampas buah Jagung” (inside of corn fruit that has been take out all of the corn’s seed), oh…sorry for my English for the last explanation about “Corn”, because difficult word for "Ampas Jagung" to find in English dictionary.

Rick · 22nd February 2010, 04:36 PM

I think the english word you are looking for is ' cob ' Brekele .

brekele · 22nd February 2010, 05:14 PM

Yes Rick, your are 100% right.
Janggelan hilt shape is taken from "Cob".
Thank you Rick.

Sajen · 22nd February 2010, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brekele

Here I try to attach 3 pictures of different style of maduranese warangka.

First warangka’s style is called ladrangan Nongko , because sampir shape was taken from daun pohon nangka’s shape (Jackfruit’s leaf).

Thank you Brekele, all is very informative. And I think now is also clear from where the name daunan orginate from.

Detlef

21st February 2010, 10:17 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,224	Here is a more recent edition of this sheath form with a flying horse hilt, mid-late 20th century most likely. Attached Images

21st February 2010, 10:58 PM	#3
brekele Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 208	I believe the hilt of this keris madura is new style (modern style) . Because most all of maduranese keris has only symbol’s shape of animals. For example Donoriko hilt, It’s syimbolize of Gajah (Elephant) or Kojuk Renget hilt , The hilt that symbolize of Kutilang Bersiul (Kutilang = Name of bird , Bersiul = whistle ) and many other hilts. Attached Images

22nd February 2010, 01:43 PM	#8
brekele Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 208	Here I try to attach 3 pictures of different style of maduranese warangka. First warangka’s style is called ladrangan Nongko , because sampir shape was taken from daun pohon nangka’s shape (Jackfruit’s leaf). Second warangka’s style is called ladrangan sukun , taken from daun sukun’s shape (Artocarpus communis leaf). 3th, Warangka’s style is called “Lanbulanan”, taken from shape of bulan sabit (Half moon). First and second pictures, shown Janggelan hilt. Janggelan is taken from the shape of “Ampas buah Jagung” (inside of corn fruit that has been take out all of the corn’s seed), oh…sorry for my English for the last explanation about “Corn”, because difficult word for "Ampas Jagung" to find in English dictionary. Attached Images

22nd February 2010, 10:17 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,035	Brekele, from your posts I have formed the opinion that you are very familiar with the Madurese language and with Madurese keris related terminology . You have told us that the name used in Madura for the type of warangka shown here is either deng udengan or urang urangan. I have noted that over the last 10 or 15 years names and attributes used by some sellers of principally Madurese keris have varied from names and attributes that I became acquainted with in the years between 1985 and 1995, when I visited both Sumenep and Pamekesan on a number of occasions For instance, at that time, the capu kagok form of ladrangan warangka was acknowledged as a legitimate Madurese form, shared with Surakarta, however, now I find that some people wish to place this form in East Jawa, and call it an East Javanese Ladrangan. The Sumenep Ladrangan form was referred to as a Ladrangan back prior to 1995, however, I now find that some people want to call it Daunan --- in other words, a warangka with a "daun", referring to the wide leaf shaped projection of a ladrangan warangka. During my visits to Sumenep I visited the Karaton musium on a number of occasions. In that musium there were examples of various types of warangkas attributable to Sumenep. Two of those warangkas were identified as "gabilan", and "brahmana rsi". These warangka types were the only types on display with heavily carved atasans, and the most easily recognisable difference between them was that the brahmana rsi form was a little larger than the gabilan form. Before reading your recent posts, I would have been inclined to identify the warangkas shown in posts 1, 7, 18, and 19 as gabilan, and the warangka shown in post 5 as sandang walikat. Now, my question to you is this:- can you please explain the difference between the warangkas that you have identified as either deng udengan or urang urangan, and the warangkas of the forms gabilan and brahmana rsi or perhaps what we are looking at is a language level variation? a variation where in lower level language "deng udengan" is used, and in the language of the court uses "gabilan" ? As your knowledge of the Madurese language is clearly far in advance of my own, and I assume most other people here, I would greatly appreciate it if could clarify this matter for us. Thank you.

22nd February 2010, 04:36 PM	#9
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,345	I think the english word you are looking for is ' cob ' Brekele .

22nd February 2010, 05:14 PM	#10
brekele Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 208	Yes Rick, your are 100% right. Janggelan hilt shape is taken from "Cob". Thank you Rick.