Ivory Silver Swassa Barong

mross · 19th February 2010, 05:48 PM

I have a theory on these status pieces. This is just a theory, with no way to prove it one way or another. I believe the status pieces that do not show laminations are made with imported steel. Imported steel does not have to be folded to make it suitable for use, it already is ready to be forged to shape. Here is my line of reasoning. Status pieces are by definition commissioned by someone of high status, which usually coincides with wealth. I find it hard to believe that you would spend all that money on the handle and then take no consideration of the blade. I do not know how these where used but if they where drawn and shown about people are going to see the blade. Plus if things do go bad and you need to use it, you don’t want a blade that will not perform. So the use of imported steel would be another indicator of status, as very few could afford it if they could get it.
Comments, opinions?

Battara · 22nd February 2010, 11:55 PM

Another possibility. Had not thought of that. May be similar to the unlaminated blades made by Chinese smiths in the Philippines.

Dimasalang · 23rd February 2010, 08:21 AM

I also have my own theory of "status pieces" and why they typically do not have laminated blades. I have one non-laminated status piece(Kampilan) that is excessively large...it is very long, blade at the tip is large, and it is way to heavy for slashing...the balance is way off. Now-a-days in this day and age, laminations on a blade are seen as works of art and we now admire them...many fail to realize during that time a laminated blade was not for decoration but was specifically designed that way to last through battles; blade strength and balance took top priority over the looks of nice laminations. Non-laminated blades were essentially uniform with a much larger variety of looks to choose from, plus the fact you can shine them...can't really make a laminated blade shine. As my status piece has shown to have some type of brass mixed in to give off a golden look and hue to the blade. Having a laminated blade on a status piece may have been, not over kill, but to ordinary and typical for a piece that was meant for ceremony and decoration; and to them a laminated blade may have been considered impractical for that use. Even though the handles, scabbards, engravings, and shapes on some laminated weapons may have been elaborately designed; the laminated blades had a purpose, and that was strength above all else...so to me laminations were not mainly used as a decorative part of a weapon.
But thats just my opinion of the limited knowledge I have now.

Battara · 23rd February 2010, 11:50 PM

You have a good point as well. Laminations would be unnecessary for many status pieces, although my ivory inlay barong does have laminations as well as my silver hilted kris.

Dimasalang · 24th February 2010, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

You have a good point as well. Laminations would be unnecessary for many status pieces, although my ivory inlay barong does have laminations as well as my silver hilted kris.

Oh no doubt many status pieces also had laminated blades since it would look more traditional as well... I jus think the ones that don't were more likely for show. But I'm sure there were other exceptions also for weapons with no laminations that were stilled used for fighting.

VANDOO · 24th February 2010, 02:48 AM

THOUGH SOME HIGH STATUS WEAPONS WERE CUSTOM MADE AS SUCH THERE WAS ANOTHER WAY THEY CAME TO BE.
I HAVE PROVENANCE ON ONE KRIS WHICH IN ITS ORIGINAL STATE WAS NOT FOR STATUS BUT USED IN BATTLE BY THE FAMILY HEAD IN HIS YOUTH. LATER WHEN THE FAMILY HAD PROSPERED AND HAD PLENTY OF WEALTH THE ELDER TOOK HIS KRIS AND HAD IT UPGRADED TO A STATUS SWORD WITH IVORY, SILVER AND THE WORKS. SO HE STILL HAD HIS OLD BATTLE SWORD BLADE AND NOW ALTHOUGH IT WAS NO LONGER FOR BATTLE IT SHOWED HIS STATUS AND WEALTH. THE MORO ALSO HELD WEAPONS IN HIGH REGARD SOMEWHAT LIKE THE KERIS IS CONSIDERED A FAMILY PUSAKA BY THE MALAY AND INDONESIAN PEOPLE.

Battara · 24th February 2010, 04:11 AM

That was very helpful Vandoo, Dimasalang, and Mross. I think my barong was made this way for one already a datu (same with my ivory kampilan).

19th February 2010, 05:48 PM	#1
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	I have a theory on these status pieces. This is just a theory, with no way to prove it one way or another. I believe the status pieces that do not show laminations are made with imported steel. Imported steel does not have to be folded to make it suitable for use, it already is ready to be forged to shape. Here is my line of reasoning. Status pieces are by definition commissioned by someone of high status, which usually coincides with wealth. I find it hard to believe that you would spend all that money on the handle and then take no consideration of the blade. I do not know how these where used but if they where drawn and shown about people are going to see the blade. Plus if things do go bad and you need to use it, you don’t want a blade that will not perform. So the use of imported steel would be another indicator of status, as very few could afford it if they could get it. Comments, opinions?

22nd February 2010, 11:55 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,363	Another possibility. Had not thought of that. May be similar to the unlaminated blades made by Chinese smiths in the Philippines.

23rd February 2010, 08:21 AM	#3
Dimasalang Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 264	I also have my own theory of "status pieces" and why they typically do not have laminated blades. I have one non-laminated status piece(Kampilan) that is excessively large...it is very long, blade at the tip is large, and it is way to heavy for slashing...the balance is way off. Now-a-days in this day and age, laminations on a blade are seen as works of art and we now admire them...many fail to realize during that time a laminated blade was not for decoration but was specifically designed that way to last through battles; blade strength and balance took top priority over the looks of nice laminations. Non-laminated blades were essentially uniform with a much larger variety of looks to choose from, plus the fact you can shine them...can't really make a laminated blade shine. As my status piece has shown to have some type of brass mixed in to give off a golden look and hue to the blade. Having a laminated blade on a status piece may have been, not over kill, but to ordinary and typical for a piece that was meant for ceremony and decoration; and to them a laminated blade may have been considered impractical for that use. Even though the handles, scabbards, engravings, and shapes on some laminated weapons may have been elaborately designed; the laminated blades had a purpose, and that was strength above all else...so to me laminations were not mainly used as a decorative part of a weapon. But thats just my opinion of the limited knowledge I have now.

23rd February 2010, 11:50 PM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,363	You have a good point as well. Laminations would be unnecessary for many status pieces, although my ivory inlay barong does have laminations as well as my silver hilted kris.

24th February 2010, 02:48 AM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THOUGH SOME HIGH STATUS WEAPONS WERE CUSTOM MADE AS SUCH THERE WAS ANOTHER WAY THEY CAME TO BE. I HAVE PROVENANCE ON ONE KRIS WHICH IN ITS ORIGINAL STATE WAS NOT FOR STATUS BUT USED IN BATTLE BY THE FAMILY HEAD IN HIS YOUTH. LATER WHEN THE FAMILY HAD PROSPERED AND HAD PLENTY OF WEALTH THE ELDER TOOK HIS KRIS AND HAD IT UPGRADED TO A STATUS SWORD WITH IVORY, SILVER AND THE WORKS. SO HE STILL HAD HIS OLD BATTLE SWORD BLADE AND NOW ALTHOUGH IT WAS NO LONGER FOR BATTLE IT SHOWED HIS STATUS AND WEALTH. THE MORO ALSO HELD WEAPONS IN HIGH REGARD SOMEWHAT LIKE THE KERIS IS CONSIDERED A FAMILY PUSAKA BY THE MALAY AND INDONESIAN PEOPLE.

24th February 2010, 04:11 AM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,363	That was very helpful Vandoo, Dimasalang, and Mross. I think my barong was made this way for one already a datu (same with my ivory kampilan).