Very Old Moro Kris

tom hyle · 24th May 2005, 02:26 PM

The straight back edge to the ganga is odd, isn't it? But it is seen on k(e)ris, so might be in line with an evolutionary form, as proposed. I don't know that it does lack an elephant trunk. The elephant trunk is the central protrusion within the large cutout at the front edge, yes? I see a protrusion within this area on the discussed sword. It is small (perhaps broken and/or rusted off), and is unusual in its placement, as it departs from the (krisly speaking) top side of the depression partway along, rather than from the center back. The angle seems similar to that on the other shown piece. Can we get a closeup?
Rick might be onto something on how to orient the writing.
The mark looks in a way like a lot of mysterious marks I see on PI and other Spanish colonial stuff; letters or numbers with things that don't seem to be and whose meaning is hard to figure, often seeming to have been chiselled, or to have been struck with (handmade?) stamps that are not entirely standard forms. Both the end characters are odd looking. The center ones do look more like stampings; a 3, an E, an m? and an s? that seems to be obscured by another striking or some sort of damage? I suspect the marking is contemporary with the rehilt.
Rick, it's real hard for me to tell forge scale, especially forge scale with rust, from heavy rust in a photo.

tom hyle · 24th May 2005, 02:33 PM

Also odd how that front notch slants out all the way across the ganga, huh? The steep angledness is very similar to the other one though.

Bill · 25th May 2005, 12:40 AM

here are a couple that are similar to Ian's, also they both have had surgery, the new tang in one & an elephant trunk added to the other. re-placing the tang may have been at a time where it was critical to get the blade back into service, if so, certainly would highlight the lack of blades available. by the end of the 16thC, there must have been great effort to produce swords. Eventually there will be hundreds of Pandays making the kris, the early ones all would have to make thier first one. the tang is very secure, the blade is very thin, so there is little room to file a channal, for expansion of the new tang. the hole in the new tang had a iron peg pounded in to expand the tang, i'm amazed they were able to do it. the hilt appears to be very old, a crack in the bottom is discolored from leaching tang rust. strickly a thrusting sword, i suspect they blackened from being retired so long, surprised they did not get re-cycled. the ratten hilt wrapped one has had a "trunk" welded on to what appears to of originally been a beak. perhaps so as to add a baca-baca stirrup. the ganja goes straight accross. has a tulip/acorn towards the tip. the sheath is wrapped in a large leaf, tied with rattan, looks like work was always being done to it, likely has had a long life.

tom hyle · 25th May 2005, 02:54 AM

That is a semistandard Moro tang repair; comments or other examples?

25th May 2005, 12:40 AM	#3
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	here are a couple that are similar to Ian's, also they both have had surgery, the new tang in one & an elephant trunk added to the other. re-placing the tang may have been at a time where it was critical to get the blade back into service, if so, certainly would highlight the lack of blades available. by the end of the 16thC, there must have been great effort to produce swords. Eventually there will be hundreds of Pandays making the kris, the early ones all would have to make thier first one. the tang is very secure, the blade is very thin, so there is little room to file a channal, for expansion of the new tang. the hole in the new tang had a iron peg pounded in to expand the tang, i'm amazed they were able to do it. the hilt appears to be very old, a crack in the bottom is discolored from leaching tang rust. strickly a thrusting sword, i suspect they blackened from being retired so long, surprised they did not get re-cycled. the ratten hilt wrapped one has had a "trunk" welded on to what appears to of originally been a beak. perhaps so as to add a baca-baca stirrup. the ganja goes straight accross. has a tulip/acorn towards the tip. the sheath is wrapped in a large leaf, tied with rattan, looks like work was always being done to it, likely has had a long life. Attached Images Last edited by Bill; 25th May 2005 at 04:27 AM.

24th May 2005, 02:26 PM	#1
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	The straight back edge to the ganga is odd, isn't it? But it is seen on k(e)ris, so might be in line with an evolutionary form, as proposed. I don't know that it does lack an elephant trunk. The elephant trunk is the central protrusion within the large cutout at the front edge, yes? I see a protrusion within this area on the discussed sword. It is small (perhaps broken and/or rusted off), and is unusual in its placement, as it departs from the (krisly speaking) top side of the depression partway along, rather than from the center back. The angle seems similar to that on the other shown piece. Can we get a closeup? Rick might be onto something on how to orient the writing. The mark looks in a way like a lot of mysterious marks I see on PI and other Spanish colonial stuff; letters or numbers with things that don't seem to be and whose meaning is hard to figure, often seeming to have been chiselled, or to have been struck with (handmade?) stamps that are not entirely standard forms. Both the end characters are odd looking. The center ones do look more like stampings; a 3, an E, an m? and an s? that seems to be obscured by another striking or some sort of damage? I suspect the marking is contemporary with the rehilt. Rick, it's real hard for me to tell forge scale, especially forge scale with rust, from heavy rust in a photo.

24th May 2005, 02:33 PM	#2
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Also odd how that front notch slants out all the way across the ganga, huh? The steep angledness is very similar to the other one though.

25th May 2005, 02:54 AM	#4
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	That is a semistandard Moro tang repair; comments or other examples?