dussage german sword

[Samik]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Also, thank you for adding the linguistic insight, which actually helps very much, and transliterations always cause confusion......
Jim

Indeed and the confusion was also quite apparent even among the western martial art practitioners back in the "early days" when messer was mixed up with a falchion and so on; not to mentioned the Eastern European perspective which confuses up things further! I suspect the similarity between Dussage and Tesák may come from the fact that one of the fencing guilds (MarxBruders or FreiFecheters?) had an establishment in Prague and mutual influences might have had occurred. A great deal of influence seem to also come from the German side as well. For example the archaism in Czech for the phrase "to fence" is "fechtit" and "fechtovať" in Slovak (you get the idea). The modern word for fencing in Slovak and Czech on the other hand is "šerm" which iirc comes from Italian scherma.

Regards ,
Samuel

[A Senefelder]

There are a good selection of pics of most every type of curve bladed sword including messers, dussacks and sinclair sabers in this album http://www.myarmoury.com/albums/thumbnails.php?album=40

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Samik

Indeed and the confusion was also quite apparent even among the western martial art practitioners back in the "early days" when messer was mixed up with a falchion and so on; not to mentioned the Eastern European perspective which confuses up things further! I suspect the similarity between Dussage and Tesák may come from the fact that one of the fencing guilds (MarxBruders or FreiFecheters?) had an establishment in Prague and mutual influences might have had occurred. A great deal of influence seem to also come from the German side as well. For example the archaism in Czech for the phrase "to fence" is "fechtit" and "fechtovať" in Slovak (you get the idea). The modern word for fencing in Slovak and Czech on the other hand is "šerm" which iirc comes from Italian scherma.

Regards ,
Samuel

Absolutely outstanding additions Samuel, and beautifully explained, which adds even more perspective.
Often when relying on contemporary narratives or accounts in historical literature these kinds of transliterations and interpolations can really play havoc in our research.

All the best,
Jim

[cornelistromp]

hello,

here is one out of my collection 1570-1580, I will post some better pics later.

there is a lot of literature:
Seitz blankwaffen, puype Visser collection part 3, puype van mauritz naar munster.

regards

[A Senefelder]

You've got a thumb ring on yours, i'm jealous, mine don't have them ( I own the two posted above ) and I love thumb rings. After my first encounter with them on a Wallon style cavalry broadsword ( c. 1650 ) I owned a number of years back I was sold on the feel in the hand of them. There is a security on the backside or drawthrough protion of a cut that comes with them that seems to make for a smoother cut in my personal expirience ( there also seems to be less wobble at the wrist after the blade comes free from the target when cutting with one ).

[cornelistromp]

Originally Posted by A Senefelder

You've got a thumb ring on yours, i'm jealous, mine don't have them ( I own the two posted above ) and I love thumb rings. After my first encounter with them on a Wallon style cavalry broadsword ( c. 1650 ) I owned a number of years back I was sold on the feel in the hand of them. There is a security on the backside or drawthrough protion of a cut that comes with them that seems to make for a smoother cut in my personal expirience ( there also seems to be less wobble at the wrist after the blade comes free from the target when cutting with one ).

Hi, yes you are absolutely right, it gives a lot more stability to the swordhand. specially on hilts where the forefinger can not go over the guard to the ricasso of the blade to give additional stability. ( swords/rapiers with a plate-filled ringguard and all kind basket hilt types)

regards from Holland

[broadaxe]

The term is obscure indeed. Jim, I have to argue with your definition as "heavy". I don't think they were heavier - considering the combat use - than their period couterparts. Mind that the simple form of the peasant dussack is just a short steel blade without additional fittings, though its knuckle bow and sometimes broader-than-usual blade give it a little more weight comparing to a "regular" bare blade.
I have two examples, will post photos later on.
Some written info can be found in:

Sach, Chladne Zbrane, p.30 (Czech text).

Muller/Kolling/Platow, Europaische Hieb-Und StichWaffen, pp.36, 76, 428 (German text).

Wagner, Cut & Thrust Weapons, pp. 34-6 (vaguely, English text).

[broadaxe]

Here are the photos:

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by broadaxe

The term is obscure indeed. Jim, I have to argue with your definition as "heavy". I don't think they were heavier - considering the combat use - than their period couterparts. Mind that the simple form of the peasant dussack is just a short steel blade without additional fittings, though its knuckle bow and sometimes broader-than-usual blade give it a little more weight comparing to a "regular" bare blade.
I have two examples, will post photos later on.
Some written info can be found in:

Sach, Chladne Zbrane, p.30 (Czech text).

Muller/Kolling/Platow, Europaische Hieb-Und StichWaffen, pp.36, 76, 428 (German text).

Wagner, Cut & Thrust Weapons, pp. 34-6 (vaguely, English text).

Broadaxe, Im sorry I missed your post here! Extremely well put, and thank you for the references. I agree with your excellent presentation, and it does appear the term 'heavy' would not apply to these short sabres. Your illustration of the two forms together is brilliant!!! Thank you so much.

All the very best,
Jim