what a kris?

David · 5th February 2010, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chregu

I know it is not easy
so I am looking for specialists. New touristenkeris no! The blade is good! has wrought tracks! metal deposits are good, brass, copper, German silver.

I don't anyone is suggesting it is new, just not an old one. It looks post WW2 to me. Could well be the late 50s or 60s. It definitely has some age to it.
Though i won't necessarily call this a tourist kris i must point out that brass, copper and silver materials are often used on them. This blade does seem a bit meatier than your average tourist blade. Most certainly though it has a mismatched hilt. This is not a kris hilt and clearly wasn't made for this blade.
It's size is unusually short for a Moro Kris at about 13 in. Bill thought about a child's blade might hold weight, but i wonder how much serious kris training kids still got in the Philippines of the 50s and 60s. Enough to warrant making a real blade for the workouts?

kai · 5th February 2010, 10:44 PM

Hello David and Bill,

Quote:

Bill thought about a child's blade might hold weight, but i wonder how much serious kris training kids still got in the Philippines of the 50s and 60s. Enough to warrant making a real blade for the workouts?

The kris was still utilized as a weapon by Moro fighters for several decades later; there surely were lots of families with serious blade training throughout the 20th century (despite guns being more sought after for practical and status reasons).

However, with all the inlay and fancy fittings this is not a practise blade! There are also no antique kris of similar size known which could be considered genuine practise blades for kids...

Regards,
Kai

Rick · 6th February 2010, 12:02 AM

I would love to see pictures of this piece taken in daylight; I just cannot see well enough from these pictures .

VANDOO · 6th February 2010, 12:48 AM

IF THE GANJAH IS SEPARATE FROM THE BLADE THE BLADE WAS MADE IN THE PROPER OLD FASHONED WAY WHICH DENOTES HIGHER QUALITY. IF THE INLAY IN THE BLADE IS WELL DONE AND THE BLADE WELL FINISHED THAT ALSO DENOTES GOOD WORKMANSHIP AND QUALITY.
THE HANDLE IS WELL CARVED AND FINISHED LOOK FOR WEAR AND PATINA TO DETERMINE AGE.

THIS KRIS IS NOT TYPICAL DUE TO ITS SMALL SIZE (CLOSER TO A LARGE GUNONG) AND HANDLE WHICH RESEMBLES A BARONG HANDLE MORE THAN A KRIS. IF THE QUALITY IS GOOD BASED ON THE ABOVE CRITERIA IT MAY HAVE BEEN A CUSTOM PIECE EITHER FOR AN INDIVIDUAL OR MADE FOR PRESENTATION OR AS A GIFT. BETTER PICTURES MAY HELP THE EXPERTS ADD SOME INFO BUT THERE IS NO GOOD SUBSTITUTE TO ACTUALLY HAVING IT IN HAND.
JUST MY TWO CENTS WORTH.

Bill · 6th February 2010, 03:00 AM

Chregu, I really like this kris & would love to have someone tell us it's story. I think I'm pretty close putting this in the 1950's-60's. Prior to WW2, the US confiscated fighting swords. Post WW2 there was a resurgence of traditional weapons but noticeable changes with the interruption of the traditional craftsmanship. The Southern Philippines didn't become heavily armed till the early 70's.
I've got a few mini kris with 4-6 inch blades. One has a plate between the blade & hilt just like yours. The ones I have are clearly worn & could only function as stabbing weapons. I feel they're from the 50's-60's.
I also have 3 little barungs. I guess they could be kitchen choppers but they have traditional appearance but little quality. Can't imagine any use for them except as training blades for boys. They also appear to be from the 50-60's.
It appears your kris has a nice blade but I don't think the rest of the dress is up to par for a nice presentation piece but is quite presentable for daily use; except it just doesn't have enough wear to show someone carried this daily, for years.
Interesting blade, hope there is more input on it.

David · 6th February 2010, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

I also have 3 little barungs. I guess they could be kitchen choppers but they have traditional appearance but little quality. Can't imagine any use for them except as training blades for boys. They also appear to be from the 50-60's.

Bill, why have you counted out that these barong might have been made for tourist trade? Why must they be training blades?

David · 6th February 2010, 06:18 AM

I have serious doubts that this is the original hilt for this kris. There are no asang-asang present or a way in which they ever could have been there and it seems doubtful to me that a weapon which is made to be wielded like a kris could simply be attached to the hilt with pitch or some other adhesive and be expected to remain attached in action.

Bill · 6th February 2010, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Bill, why have you counted out that these barong might have been made for tourist trade? Why must they be training blades?

They may very well be just tourist trinkets. If they sell I'm sure someone would make them. Just don't see GI's/tourist buying a blade they can only get 2 or 3 fingers around the hilt.
As far as the stirrups go; a 12" blade isn't going to be a slashing weapon. It may open the skin but it isn't going to hack into the flesh. So if it's a real weapon, this is for stabbing.
I've seen 12" "kris" on ebay in the past. Not often & they are usually very crude. Here is a typical example, referred to at Therion Arms as a gunong dagger: http://therionarms.com/antiques/therionarms_c715.html
Were these used as a real weapon? I don't think so. What tourist is going to buy them? Only thing that makes sense is a training sword for small boys. If I'm right, Chregu has the coolest one I've ever seen.

6th February 2010, 12:02 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	I would love to see pictures of this piece taken in daylight; I just cannot see well enough from these pictures .

6th February 2010, 12:48 AM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	IF THE GANJAH IS SEPARATE FROM THE BLADE THE BLADE WAS MADE IN THE PROPER OLD FASHONED WAY WHICH DENOTES HIGHER QUALITY. IF THE INLAY IN THE BLADE IS WELL DONE AND THE BLADE WELL FINISHED THAT ALSO DENOTES GOOD WORKMANSHIP AND QUALITY. THE HANDLE IS WELL CARVED AND FINISHED LOOK FOR WEAR AND PATINA TO DETERMINE AGE. THIS KRIS IS NOT TYPICAL DUE TO ITS SMALL SIZE (CLOSER TO A LARGE GUNONG) AND HANDLE WHICH RESEMBLES A BARONG HANDLE MORE THAN A KRIS. IF THE QUALITY IS GOOD BASED ON THE ABOVE CRITERIA IT MAY HAVE BEEN A CUSTOM PIECE EITHER FOR AN INDIVIDUAL OR MADE FOR PRESENTATION OR AS A GIFT. BETTER PICTURES MAY HELP THE EXPERTS ADD SOME INFO BUT THERE IS NO GOOD SUBSTITUTE TO ACTUALLY HAVING IT IN HAND. JUST MY TWO CENTS WORTH.

6th February 2010, 03:00 AM	#5
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Chregu, I really like this kris & would love to have someone tell us it's story. I think I'm pretty close putting this in the 1950's-60's. Prior to WW2, the US confiscated fighting swords. Post WW2 there was a resurgence of traditional weapons but noticeable changes with the interruption of the traditional craftsmanship. The Southern Philippines didn't become heavily armed till the early 70's. I've got a few mini kris with 4-6 inch blades. One has a plate between the blade & hilt just like yours. The ones I have are clearly worn & could only function as stabbing weapons. I feel they're from the 50's-60's. I also have 3 little barungs. I guess they could be kitchen choppers but they have traditional appearance but little quality. Can't imagine any use for them except as training blades for boys. They also appear to be from the 50-60's. It appears your kris has a nice blade but I don't think the rest of the dress is up to par for a nice presentation piece but is quite presentable for daily use; except it just doesn't have enough wear to show someone carried this daily, for years. Interesting blade, hope there is more input on it.

6th February 2010, 06:18 AM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	I have serious doubts that this is the original hilt for this kris. There are no asang-asang present or a way in which they ever could have been there and it seems doubtful to me that a weapon which is made to be wielded like a kris could simply be attached to the hilt with pitch or some other adhesive and be expected to remain attached in action.