Did I Make a BIG Mistake?

[David]

No offense to European arms collectors intended Jim, but i'm not so sure that the "Indonesian Experts" spend all that much time checking stuff out over on this forum. Robert, you might want to post this over on the main forum to see is it attracts some more attention. The VOC mark looks a bit rough and suspect to me, but you never know...

[Robert]

Hello David, You have a good point about re-posting these on the main forum for possibly more exposure. As you said, the VOC does look a bit odd but the pictures are of such poor quality I thought that I'd wait until the swords have arrived and I have had a lot better look at them before I made any judgement on their authenticity. Do you think I should start a new thread on the Ethnographic forum on these swords now or wait until after they have arrived, or just ask to have this one moved? Thank you for your suggestion.


Robert

[Ian Knight]

Hello Robert,
I'm not sure about these swords I'm afraid, but you will only know in your own mind when you handle them. The blades do look very point heavy similar to many reproductions. Yours also have that rounded appearance associated with repros. They swords seem quite crudely made too. I hope that I am wrong.
I have owned a couple of Dutch klewangs and the blades toward the point were much less meaty (in thickness).
Ian

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by David

No offense to European arms collectors intended Jim, but i'm not so sure that the "Indonesian Experts" spend all that much time checking stuff out over on this forum. Robert, you might want to post this over on the main forum to see is it attracts some more attention. The VOC mark looks a bit rough and suspect to me, but you never know...

No problem at all David, and it is very true that while there are distinct differences in these fields categorically, there are always profound influences between them. This was one of the reasons I wanted to expand to a subforum which dealt more directly with European, military and other categories which exceeded the ethnographic denominator.

One of the most fascinating areas of collecting for me was always the hybrid weapons found in the colonial regions occupied by many of the European powers, for example the swords of the British Raj. The subject of the Dutch East Indies is fascinating and the cross influences and diffusion of weapons can be entirely intriguing.

I must admit that I have often shied away from the Indonesian field as it is so consumingly complex, and though I always have admired the knowledge of the specialists in these, it is a daunting area of collecting. Recently I have been learning more on these, and with the factors I have noted, can see the excitement and fascination in them.

One key note of fascination to me historically was always that these entirely exotic weapons were included in Rembrandts collection of arms, and in well known cases appeared in some of his Biblical theme paintings. It was always fascinating to see the adventure of the high seas and the VOC bringing these weapons from another world into that of this most famous artist.

Back to the swords Ians observations are well placed, as are Cornelis' comments which are most helpful in noting the later pattern these seem to be derived from, and the comments on the VOC markings.

I think it would be good to post these independantly on the Ethnographic Forum as suggested, to include those collectors who quite likely may have seen these type items in the context of other Indonesian items. While the post itself is well placed here from the Dutch origin of the sword type, the Indonesian provenance is as well pertinant.

This situation is an excellent example of the harmonious collaboration between these seemingly different forums, and the hybridization in weapons that reflects the important influences of cross culture diffusion.


Excellent observations and comments guys!!!
All very best regards,
Jim

[Robert]

I made a BIG mistake!!! Pure junk.

[Coomagirl]

I know this is an old thread but was wondering why your swords that you purchased were junk. I have one very much like it, with the head of eagle. It has more detail and also had Batavia writen on it as well as VOC.