Thai Kastane

Rick · 23rd May 2005, 12:24 AM

I'm also wondering if the blade is of Thai manufacture ; it looks like Indian work to me , or possibly Persian .
Possibly the only thing Thai about it may be the hilt .

Justin · 24th May 2005, 02:37 AM

I agree with Rick,the blade looks very 'tulwar-ish' to me I wonder if this was made in India somewhere not to far from Sri Lanka.I do also have to admit though that the hilt looks a lot like the 'Vietnamese sabers' that have popped up here and there.

Conogre · 24th May 2005, 05:23 AM

I would have to agree that the blade does look as if it may have come from India, while the hilt itself is truly oriental in appearance, as are some from SE Asia, including Thailand, but the whole feel is just wrong for the latter, somehow.
I wish I could give a better argument than just a hunch, but for now, that will have to suffice.
Mike

tom hyle · 24th May 2005, 01:16 PM

Does the blade not also resemble the type of parang nabur that has a yelman? The hilt has at least 3 characteristics that are very different from any other kastane shown: the knuclebow seems to connect at the pommel; the knuckle bow is more gradually curved, less angled (and closer to the blade/handle) where it angles up; the handle has a curvature in the part that is meant to be inside the hand, rather than being essentially straight with a hooked pommel, which is a significant handling difference. Also, the metal-covered(?) handle seems unusual (?) but seems to be occasionally seen in all times and places......Can't see the face too well, but it does not look like the usual face.

Rick · 24th May 2005, 01:48 PM

I'm kind of suspicious of this sword .
It could all be S.Indian after seeing some of the motifs in Elgood's Hindu Arms and Ritual i.e. pg. 99 fig. 8.64 or pg. 100 fig. 8.67 or pg. 175 fig. 16.26 .

If the hilt had a polish it might appear quite differently .
The fullering , and the blade itself is quite different than most parang nabur .

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=parang+nabur

Mark · 24th May 2005, 05:44 PM

As far as the detail of the decoration, I do not recognize any Thai motifs, which tend to be a little more "flamey" or spikey. Nor have I read or see a kastane provinenced from Thailand. There were certainly contacts with Sri Lanka, perhaps more with Burma than Thailand. One other point to ponder is a royal edict issued in Siam at a time when Japanese blades were becoming common and popular, requiring that the use of such blades would be acceptable only so long as the fittings were Thai. So you see a fair number of katana blades fitted with handles having a round cross-section and a pommel. Based on that I would have expected a more Thai-styled handle on the blade, though in more recent times the knuckle-bow saber handle is common.

Coincedentally, here is a sword which was recently sold by Hermann-Historica, attributed to "Borneo/Brunei," but the handle of which to me strongly resembles that of a Burmese dha. Note the blade ...

CharlesS · 24th May 2005, 10:40 PM

I agree with Mark completely. I see nothing in this sword that says "Thai".

tom hyle · 25th May 2005, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

The fullering , and the blade itself is quite different than most parang nabur .

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=parang+nabur

I agree it is different than most parang nabur. I think of the bathead sword as perhaps a more "native"/archetypical form of parang nabur than those in the thread you linked, but it is the type in that thread to which I was referring as similar to this sword. I still think so; two grooves along the spine (yes, these ones are wider); similar length and curvature; trailing tip with yelman (I'm not sure a parang nabur really is a parang nabur when it has a clipped/truncatd tip, BTW; it's certainly significantly different than the machete like trailing tips; whether this is reflected with a different native name I don't know.); what's so different? All I see is this blade seems narrower, and that this narrowness occurs more at the tip; this blade seems to get a bit narrower as it goes away from the hilt, the parang nabur wider.

Gavin Nugent · 4th April 2011, 05:34 AM

Whilst reading through some old posts I came to this and it seemed to stop unsolved within these pages many years ago.

To throw my hat in the ring, it appears to be of Sumatran Peudeung form. The hilt to me says Vietnamese made in Peudeung form.
The Islamic blade/blade stlye is not unheard of within Sumatran weapons so perhaps the sword in full or hilt alone was gifted or bought from a Vietnamese person/workshop to or by a Sumatran??

My 2 cents

Gav

24th May 2005, 01:48 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Really Thai ? I'm kind of suspicious of this sword . It could all be S.Indian after seeing some of the motifs in Elgood's Hindu Arms and Ritual i.e. pg. 99 fig. 8.64 or pg. 100 fig. 8.67 or pg. 175 fig. 16.26 . If the hilt had a polish it might appear quite differently . The fullering , and the blade itself is quite different than most parang nabur . http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=parang+nabur Last edited by Rick; 24th May 2005 at 01:55 PM. Reason: Not enough coffee yet , typos and afterthoughts .

24th May 2005, 05:44 PM	#6
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	As far as the detail of the decoration, I do not recognize any Thai motifs, which tend to be a little more "flamey" or spikey. Nor have I read or see a kastane provinenced from Thailand. There were certainly contacts with Sri Lanka, perhaps more with Burma than Thailand. One other point to ponder is a royal edict issued in Siam at a time when Japanese blades were becoming common and popular, requiring that the use of such blades would be acceptable only so long as the fittings were Thai. So you see a fair number of katana blades fitted with handles having a round cross-section and a pommel. Based on that I would have expected a more Thai-styled handle on the blade, though in more recent times the knuckle-bow saber handle is common. Coincedentally, here is a sword which was recently sold by Hermann-Historica, attributed to "Borneo/Brunei," but the handle of which to me strongly resembles that of a Burmese dha. Note the blade ... Attached Images

4th April 2011, 05:34 AM	#9
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	From the depths Whilst reading through some old posts I came to this and it seemed to stop unsolved within these pages many years ago. To throw my hat in the ring, it appears to be of Sumatran Peudeung form. The hilt to me says Vietnamese made in Peudeung form. The Islamic blade/blade stlye is not unheard of within Sumatran weapons so perhaps the sword in full or hilt alone was gifted or bought from a Vietnamese person/workshop to or by a Sumatran?? My 2 cents Gav

23rd May 2005, 12:24 AM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	I'm also wondering if the blade is of Thai manufacture ; it looks like Indian work to me , or possibly Persian . Possibly the only thing Thai about it may be the hilt .

24th May 2005, 02:37 AM	#2
Justin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 178	I agree with Rick,the blade looks very 'tulwar-ish' to me I wonder if this was made in India somewhere not to far from Sri Lanka.I do also have to admit though that the hilt looks a lot like the 'Vietnamese sabers' that have popped up here and there.

24th May 2005, 05:23 AM	#3
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	I would have to agree that the blade does look as if it may have come from India, while the hilt itself is truly oriental in appearance, as are some from SE Asia, including Thailand, but the whole feel is just wrong for the latter, somehow. I wish I could give a better argument than just a hunch, but for now, that will have to suffice. Mike

24th May 2005, 01:16 PM	#4
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Does the blade not also resemble the type of parang nabur that has a yelman? The hilt has at least 3 characteristics that are very different from any other kastane shown: the knuclebow seems to connect at the pommel; the knuckle bow is more gradually curved, less angled (and closer to the blade/handle) where it angles up; the handle has a curvature in the part that is meant to be inside the hand, rather than being essentially straight with a hooked pommel, which is a significant handling difference. Also, the metal-covered(?) handle seems unusual (?) but seems to be occasionally seen in all times and places......Can't see the face too well, but it does not look like the usual face.

24th May 2005, 10:40 PM	#7
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	I agree with Mark completely. I see nothing in this sword that says "Thai".