Colonial hanger, Spanish dagger or ?

Rick · 20th January 2010, 01:14 AM

Ahh, the Whydah Galley .

My lips ae sealed ......... LOLZ !!

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Thanks again to everyone for helping define the origins of this sword.

Jim, as always, the piracy trade continues to attract me to that dubious lifestyle and their weapons. I have always enjoyed the story of the Whydah and its connection with the "trade". Interesting how the ship avoided one life of savagery only to succomb to another. In one of my volumes on piracy, it is very well noted that when a ship was boarded, some of the cargoed slaves were offered their freedom to join the pirate crew. I could have imagined an earleir version of this sword being carried by such a crew member.

David, very nice piece and while Dmitry is probably correct as to its blade being from a cavalry saber, it still very possibly served life in a maritime fashion. I love the way these cultures used what weapons they had access to to make their own creations. The Berber sabers that used the 1797 Brit cavalry saber blades comes to mind.

P.S. Jim, where did you get that cool map from? Don't tell me you had that one stashed in the book mobile?-

Jim McDougall · 20th January 2010, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Ahh, the Whydah Galley .

My lips ae sealed ......... LOLZ !!

more if the brethren of the sea emerge!!!

M ELEY · 24th January 2010, 08:33 AM

Well, I made the decision to part with the African cutlass (my collecting is only supported by selling off or trading other items) and sold it to pay for a piece on eBay. Take a look-

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

It is a Dutch Marine sabal/saber circa 1790. According to Gilkerson/Boarders Away, it is thought that the ones without Dutch markings, rack numbers, etc, were imported to the U.S. during the Quazi War for ship use by the newly reformed U.S. Marines. In any case, while doing a general search on Google for other Dutch swords, I coincidentally stumbled upon this specimen-

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/ad...p?itemID=14911

Look familiar? That hilt wrap resembles the one just sold. So, I'm assuming this to be West African or???

Jim McDougall · 24th January 2010, 03:15 PM

Excellent call on this 'Civil War' sabre Mark!!!! Even though damaged, a most unusual item that has distinct possibilities....you've got quite the eagle eye there to spot that one as Dutch...Gilkerson is definitely a valuable resource.

I'm inclined to think that the guy in Houston has this sabre pegged pretty accurately, and it very well might be Dutch and of Revolutionary War period, after all, New York and environs were early Dutch settlements. The connections to the Netherlands in these colonial times were profound.
As far as the style of wrap, it seems more 'period' than place, and quite honestly with the amount of diffusion in trade, colonial activity and of course warfare in these times, without well supported provenance, any assessment must remain mostly speculation in my opinion.
In the case of the sabre posted here, the speculation seems compelling.

All the best,
Jim

P.S. Mark, thank you so much for keeping it going with these colonial and maritime topics!!! You really keep things intriguing and fun!!

Here is the sabre from Houston shown as possibly Revolutionary War period Dutch...need to check Neumann on this one

celtan · 24th January 2010, 10:22 PM

Personally, I'd rather help them submerge...

: )

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

more if the brethren of the sea emerge!!!

24th January 2010, 08:33 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,158	Strange how life works... Well, I made the decision to part with the African cutlass (my collecting is only supported by selling off or trading other items) and sold it to pay for a piece on eBay. Take a look- http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT It is a Dutch Marine sabal/saber circa 1790. According to Gilkerson/Boarders Away, it is thought that the ones without Dutch markings, rack numbers, etc, were imported to the U.S. during the Quazi War for ship use by the newly reformed U.S. Marines. In any case, while doing a general search on Google for other Dutch swords, I coincidentally stumbled upon this specimen- http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/ad...p?itemID=14911 Look familiar? That hilt wrap resembles the one just sold. So, I'm assuming this to be West African or??? Last edited by M ELEY; 24th January 2010 at 08:51 AM.

24th January 2010, 03:15 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Excellent call on this 'Civil War' sabre Mark!!!! Even though damaged, a most unusual item that has distinct possibilities....you've got quite the eagle eye there to spot that one as Dutch...Gilkerson is definitely a valuable resource. I'm inclined to think that the guy in Houston has this sabre pegged pretty accurately, and it very well might be Dutch and of Revolutionary War period, after all, New York and environs were early Dutch settlements. The connections to the Netherlands in these colonial times were profound. As far as the style of wrap, it seems more 'period' than place, and quite honestly with the amount of diffusion in trade, colonial activity and of course warfare in these times, without well supported provenance, any assessment must remain mostly speculation in my opinion. In the case of the sabre posted here, the speculation seems compelling. All the best, Jim P.S. Mark, thank you so much for keeping it going with these colonial and maritime topics!!! You really keep things intriguing and fun!! Here is the sabre from Houston shown as possibly Revolutionary War period Dutch...need to check Neumann on this one Attached Images