Projectile?

colin henshaw · 7th January 2010, 07:20 PM

Hi

Interesting set of views on this. It seems unlikely that a projectile for an early cannon would have silver inlay to the point....

Its probable that the part with the silver is meant to be displayed, and could be a handle, the octagonal bit (as already noted), likely would be inserted into a handle or shaft, the shape preventing turning. Some other possible applications could be :-

a) Handle for a flag or other processional item
b) Finial to a standard of some sort
c) Handle (one of four corners) of a palanquin or a large deity carried in procession (inserted into an octagonal slot).

Regarding elephant goads, it seems not all had hooks, a quick troll on google shows this example described as "a fine Sri Lankan rosewood brass and steel elephant goad and sword stick"

I wonder if the silver inlay symbols have any local Sri Lanka meaning ?

Regards
Colin

Jim McDougall · 7th January 2010, 08:03 PM

I am wondering of the silver inlays might have been emplaced at a later time, perhaps after this weapon/component had been taken out of use and if it might have become a votive object? It does seem that in many cases that weaponry did become holdings in temples and monasteries, for example in Tibet (not suggesting this is Tibetan, just an instance) which served as revered objects for various purposes.
As has been noted, it does not seem that silver would have been inlaid in a tool or weapon, especially something which would have been lost in battle.
If the item was no longer in service, but became venerably associated with any number of events, person, purposes etc. perhaps symbolic marks might have been applied?

All best regards,
Jim

Anandalal N. · 8th January 2010, 02:34 AM

Great input and thanks.

Yes I can see the logic of not using silver in a projectile that one would be unlikely to retrive.

Let me add the following observations with my attempt at explaining them.
(a) The raised ring A1-B1 has a flat surface towards the octagonal section which we assume is where the shaft was fixed. Hence the obvious reason would be to prevent the shaft sliding forward in the event of a hard impact.
(b) The octagonal part shows that anteriorly i.e. just after the raised ring it is narrow and gradually widens towards the posterior, becoming slightly narrow once again at the furtherst end. If this is intentional, once the sleeve is in place, it would prevent the head flying off leaving the shaft behind in the event of a forward motion applied to the shaft.

On the above observations I am of the opinion that it was projected in some way with some force though that does not automatically relate it to the cannon situation. Of course that does not explain the silver inlay unless there was some talismanic object as Jim has indicated.

I assume the previous discussion on gun arrrows at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7158 and in particular the link http://www.koreanarchery.org/classic/bhwangja.mpg would have been looked at where in the winged arrow, the head is sunken into the shaft. I cannot open the other links therein.

Best Regards.

fernando · 10th January 2010, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

b) Finial to a standard of some sort

I would subscribe such probability ... till further otherwise evidence

.
Fernando.

junker · 17th January 2010, 05:03 PM

Hello,

i was with my friends this weekend and i couldnt believe my eyes.
This part of an old SINGER sewing machine looks quite similar to this "projectile".

It is made of wood and sticks in the desk of the machine.

We dont know for which it will be used on it but maybe of assorting the cloth.
Because of the existing textile industrie in Sri Lanka your Item could be a part of an industrial sewing machine and it will explain the decoration on it; Singer do so too with his machine itself.

best regards
Dirk

bluelake · 18th January 2010, 08:33 AM

Here are a couple pictures from items in the Korean Army Museum.

The first is of 19th century Korean police clubs (the third one looks a lot like the OP's item) and the second is of points that went on the Korean cannon projectiles.

Anandalal N. · 19th January 2010, 11:16 AM

Thank you all for the insight.

Bluelake, I assume all three Police clubs are wooden? Is the third one a "Yawara" type weapon instead of a club?

The iron arrowheads are facinating. Obviously secured by a pin throught the tang? Has any dating been done?

Thanks.

Anandalal N.

bluelake · 19th January 2010, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anandalal N.

Thank you all for the insight.

Bluelake, I assume all three Police clubs are wooden? Is the third one a "Yawara" type weapon instead of a club?

The iron arrowheads are facinating. Obviously secured by a pin throught the tang? Has any dating been done?

Thanks.

Anandalal N.

I'll be visiting the Korean Army Museum in a couple weeks on some other research business; I'll look closer at the clubs. I believe they are all wood, but I'll check. All three are like Joseon dynasty police used.

The projectile points just say "Joseon dynasty" in Korean, which could mean any time between 1392-1910, although I know that type of weapon was used from early Joseon at least on up through the Hideyoshi invasion of 1592-1598.

mross · 21st January 2010, 07:01 PM

Looks a little like a belaying pin to me.

7th January 2010, 07:20 PM	#1
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,429	Hi Interesting set of views on this. It seems unlikely that a projectile for an early cannon would have silver inlay to the point.... Its probable that the part with the silver is meant to be displayed, and could be a handle, the octagonal bit (as already noted), likely would be inserted into a handle or shaft, the shape preventing turning. Some other possible applications could be :- a) Handle for a flag or other processional item b) Finial to a standard of some sort c) Handle (one of four corners) of a palanquin or a large deity carried in procession (inserted into an octagonal slot). Regarding elephant goads, it seems not all had hooks, a quick troll on google shows this example described as "a fine Sri Lankan rosewood brass and steel elephant goad and sword stick" I wonder if the silver inlay symbols have any local Sri Lanka meaning ? Regards Colin Attached Images

17th January 2010, 05:03 PM	#5
junker Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 140	sewing machin part ?? Hello, i was with my friends this weekend and i couldnt believe my eyes. This part of an old SINGER sewing machine looks quite similar to this "projectile". It is made of wood and sticks in the desk of the machine. We dont know for which it will be used on it but maybe of assorting the cloth. Because of the existing textile industrie in Sri Lanka your Item could be a part of an industrial sewing machine and it will explain the decoration on it; Singer do so too with his machine itself. best regards Dirk Attached Images

7th January 2010, 08:03 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	I am wondering of the silver inlays might have been emplaced at a later time, perhaps after this weapon/component had been taken out of use and if it might have become a votive object? It does seem that in many cases that weaponry did become holdings in temples and monasteries, for example in Tibet (not suggesting this is Tibetan, just an instance) which served as revered objects for various purposes. As has been noted, it does not seem that silver would have been inlaid in a tool or weapon, especially something which would have been lost in battle. If the item was no longer in service, but became venerably associated with any number of events, person, purposes etc. perhaps symbolic marks might have been applied? All best regards, Jim

8th January 2010, 02:34 AM	#3
Anandalal N. Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 84	Great input and thanks. Yes I can see the logic of not using silver in a projectile that one would be unlikely to retrive. Let me add the following observations with my attempt at explaining them. (a) The raised ring A1-B1 has a flat surface towards the octagonal section which we assume is where the shaft was fixed. Hence the obvious reason would be to prevent the shaft sliding forward in the event of a hard impact. (b) The octagonal part shows that anteriorly i.e. just after the raised ring it is narrow and gradually widens towards the posterior, becoming slightly narrow once again at the furtherst end. If this is intentional, once the sleeve is in place, it would prevent the head flying off leaving the shaft behind in the event of a forward motion applied to the shaft. On the above observations I am of the opinion that it was projected in some way with some force though that does not automatically relate it to the cannon situation. Of course that does not explain the silver inlay unless there was some talismanic object as Jim has indicated. I assume the previous discussion on gun arrrows at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7158 and in particular the link http://www.koreanarchery.org/classic/bhwangja.mpg would have been looked at where in the winged arrow, the head is sunken into the shaft. I cannot open the other links therein. Best Regards.

18th January 2010, 08:33 AM	#6
bluelake Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Gyeongsan, South Korea Posts: 57	Here are a couple pictures from items in the Korean Army Museum. The first is of 19th century Korean police clubs (the third one looks a lot like the OP's item) and the second is of points that went on the Korean cannon projectiles.

19th January 2010, 11:16 AM	#7
Anandalal N. Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 84	Thank you all for the insight. Bluelake, I assume all three Police clubs are wooden? Is the third one a "Yawara" type weapon instead of a club? The iron arrowheads are facinating. Obviously secured by a pin throught the tang? Has any dating been done? Thanks. Anandalal N.

21st January 2010, 07:01 PM	#9
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	Looks a little like a belaying pin to me.