And what is this one??

Lew · 1st January 2010, 04:28 PM

Seems Greek to me? Whatever it is it is quite nice.

This book may help?

http://www.explorecrete.com/traditio...tan-dagger.htm

kronckew · 1st January 2010, 05:01 PM

grips reminds me a bit of a cretian knife. they can have quite fancy silver scabbards...

edited: should have read above post 1st, great minds think alike i guess

Oriental-Arms · 1st January 2010, 05:30 PM

I do have the book on Cretan knife, but except for the forked pommel there is nothing there similar to this dagger.
p.s. Forked pommels can also be found on Turkish Bichaq, Russian Shashqas and many other blades, not to mention the endless variety of Yataghans.

ilias · 1st January 2010, 06:22 PM

In my opinion this is an East European short sword/dagger.The handle has clear European work.About the blade and the scabbard they are from East.Just an opinion.
All the best
Ilias

Jim McDougall · 1st January 2010, 09:16 PM

Most interesting piece, and in accord with the well placed assessments already suggested, I would add the suggestion that perhaps it might be an Ottoman naval dirk.
In certain ways it seems to recall the Caucasian kindjhal and the Persian Qama in profile, and the cleft pommel indeed present in Caucasian and Bukharen weapons, influences all present in Ottoman forces.

While not specifically comparable to the Cretan or Greek weapons, this gestalt seems present in the diffusion of weapons through the Ottoman Empire as with this presumably early to mid 19th century weapon, perhaps earlier.

I think the ivory, the well placed note concerning scrimshaw, might lend to this being a naval weapon, and the tamga like fluorish in gold may suggest an individual of standing from officer to merchant in sea trade.

Lee · 2nd January 2010, 09:04 AM

The 'wave' pattern seen in the background of the close-ups of the inlays is most interesting. In the upper pictures it seems to fade out beyond the area of the engraving. Is this a surface application or does the pattern appear to go deeper.

Gavin Nugent · 2nd January 2010, 09:44 AM

A nice and interesting piece, congrats.

Firstly Turkish comes to mind when looking at the scabbard and blade, some decorations to the side of the tang and the ivory slabs remind me of some French weapons and decorations found on these weapons and the slabs do remind me on the knives from Crete to some degree as noted above.

If I was going to try to place it in a "box" I too would call it an Ottoman dagger and I would also note it as naval, only in so far as I would "assume" that the lanyard hole in the hilt would not normally be seen on knives used on land and a lanyard would be used to secure the piece in hand and thus keeping it from dropping in to the sea forever.

A question about the construction, the image looking between the slab ends, what is the circle? Are the edges of the tang a continuation of the blade or are the strips of another steel? Where the blade and the slabs meet, is that silver inlay on the blade? I also note that what appears to be silver inlay at this point has a distinct Jambiya feel to it, this might also explain the elephant ivory where walrus was usually prominent? Perhaps Oman/Ottoman is the cross cultural mix present on this wonderful looking piece.

Gav

1st January 2010, 04:28 PM	#1
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Seems Greek to me? Whatever it is it is quite nice. This book may help? http://www.explorecrete.com/traditio...tan-dagger.htm Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 1st January 2010 at 04:41 PM.

1st January 2010, 05:30 PM	#3
Oriental-Arms Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Haifa, Israel Posts: 183	Cretan knife? I do have the book on Cretan knife, but except for the forked pommel there is nothing there similar to this dagger. p.s. Forked pommels can also be found on Turkish Bichaq, Russian Shashqas and many other blades, not to mention the endless variety of Yataghans.

2nd January 2010, 09:44 AM	#7
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Interesting A nice and interesting piece, congrats. Firstly Turkish comes to mind when looking at the scabbard and blade, some decorations to the side of the tang and the ivory slabs remind me of some French weapons and decorations found on these weapons and the slabs do remind me on the knives from Crete to some degree as noted above. If I was going to try to place it in a "box" I too would call it an Ottoman dagger and I would also note it as naval, only in so far as I would "assume" that the lanyard hole in the hilt would not normally be seen on knives used on land and a lanyard would be used to secure the piece in hand and thus keeping it from dropping in to the sea forever. A question about the construction, the image looking between the slab ends, what is the circle? Are the edges of the tang a continuation of the blade or are the strips of another steel? Where the blade and the slabs meet, is that silver inlay on the blade? I also note that what appears to be silver inlay at this point has a distinct Jambiya feel to it, this might also explain the elephant ivory where walrus was usually prominent? Perhaps Oman/Ottoman is the cross cultural mix present on this wonderful looking piece. Gav

1st January 2010, 05:01 PM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,227	grips reminds me a bit of a cretian knife. they can have quite fancy silver scabbards... edited: should have read above post 1st, great minds think alike i guess

1st January 2010, 06:22 PM	#4
ilias Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: GREECE Posts: 73	In my opinion this is an East European short sword/dagger.The handle has clear European work.About the blade and the scabbard they are from East.Just an opinion. All the best Ilias

1st January 2010, 09:16 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,295	Most interesting piece, and in accord with the well placed assessments already suggested, I would add the suggestion that perhaps it might be an Ottoman naval dirk. In certain ways it seems to recall the Caucasian kindjhal and the Persian Qama in profile, and the cleft pommel indeed present in Caucasian and Bukharen weapons, influences all present in Ottoman forces. While not specifically comparable to the Cretan or Greek weapons, this gestalt seems present in the diffusion of weapons through the Ottoman Empire as with this presumably early to mid 19th century weapon, perhaps earlier. I think the ivory, the well placed note concerning scrimshaw, might lend to this being a naval weapon, and the tamga like fluorish in gold may suggest an individual of standing from officer to merchant in sea trade.

2nd January 2010, 09:04 AM	#6
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 937	The 'wave' pattern seen in the background of the close-ups of the inlays is most interesting. In the upper pictures it seems to fade out beyond the area of the engraving. Is this a surface application or does the pattern appear to go deeper.