European medieval sword inscriptions

Fromhold K. · 21st May 2005, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radu Transylvanicus

Rather than try to get all the inscriptions possible in your reach (mission impossible!) maybe you should probably start classifications

Sure, there is not much point in just collecting all the inscriptions, right? However, to make some kind of analyse, I prefer to have enough sources. I have about 30 writings. For now I have made a rather casual classification of inscriptions:
1. maker's marks
2. geometrical markings, patterns etc. (for better appearance)
3. magical signs, zodiac signs
4. letters (which actually are the first or last letters of a word, for example NED=NominE Domini)
5. sentences, which are classified:

a. moral sentences, usually including poetic (who lives in lie, destroys his soul, whose talk is false, his honour is also)
b. legitimizing sentences (in the name of law I thrust)
c. evocational sentences (in the name of God; Mary, remember me!)
d. informative sentences (Rotgier's sword, Gicelin made me)

Of course, this is very casual look on the analyse.

And yeah, I already figured these Kühm-Kühn, richtsxhwert things out, but I had hell of a time trying translating duest and firch, and figured out the ivnckhfrav

. So lots of thanks for the translations!

Jim McDougall · 22nd May 2005, 04:45 PM

Wow! Michal , outstanding resources! Now thats what I'm talkin' about!!
Seriously, excellent resources for the study of these markings. It does seem that the German journals carry far more subjective studies concerning the use of the markings that have been carried on trade blades for so many centuries.

Very well placed additions as well Jan!

I think it is great that you guys offer this kind of assistance as the subject matter here is only ever touched on in extremely esoteric resources, and as mentioned these are seldom available here in the west, and then there is for many of us the language barrier. It is very kind for you to offer translating help.

Fromhold,
I think it you have chosen a fascinating topic, but certainly a formidable one. I am unclear on your thesis though. Your title "The Meaning and Symbolism of the Sword in Medieval Society" ...are you focused on the sword as a symbolic and traditional weapon, or is the digression to the assorted markings and mottos etc. the actual focus? The numerous books by Ewart Oakeshott
carry probably the most interesting treatment of the sword itself and its importance in chivalry, but there are a number of other titles that describe similar perspective. His books also include the earlier periods which are key as well.

The topic of the markings, mottoes and certain blade motif is vast and seldom focused on in most resources on weapons subjectively, except in the references already presented and occasional others equally esoteric. If you are categorically collecting examples of these, it seems most are noted in either footnotes or captions in the catalogs of museums, collections, auctions etc. and of course in the reference titles we often refer to here.
As far as the development, meaning and application of these noted examples, there has always been casual speculation and discussion, but seldom conclusive material. Again, Oakeshott probably has the best perspective on these in his titles, especially "The Archaeology of Weapons".

Check our search feature for key topics, and titles. We try to use references whenever possible so that further research can be done by those so interested in a certain topic and often these titles can be obtained through interlibrary loan. As always, please feel free to contact via PM, and we can all help with specific questions. Very much looking forward to progress on your work!!!

All the best,
Jim

Fromhold K. · 22nd May 2005, 08:59 PM

Jim,
I knew soon after starting the project that it's formidable and has immense number of resources

. So probably it turns out to be quite general work and a prologue to my MA (as I hope). The work is rather interdisciplinary, I try to find how medieval people regarded swords using medieval legends and literature, markings on swords, texts on swords and medieval habits concerning the sword as sources and using the methods of archaeology, history, psychology, folklore and semiotics.

Hence the focus is not mottoes and markings only, this is just one way of many attempts to creep into medieval mind

. Of course, I do not think that my work is absolute or shows "how things actually were" and what did they "actually" thought (which is quite impossible). The deductions are just some of many possibilities.

Jim McDougall · 22nd May 2005, 11:08 PM

Hi Fromhold,
Thank you for going into the dynamics of your study, which really helps know more about how we can help. Actually the very elements you have described have been pretty much the basis of the study of swords and weapons in general for most of us for the time we have pursued this history. While we focus on ethnographic examples from various regions intermittantly, most of the time we return to the earlier swords in studying the development of the many later forms. It seems almost like 'sword geneology' if I could chose an analogy, and the medieval period is especially interesting to most of us here.

The thread you have started with the actual names of swords is also very interesting and it was very prudent of you to isolate that topic so it might be addressed with more focus separately.

I think we'll all head for the bookshelves to see what curious notes and anecdotes we can find that might apply to your subject matter...as we always say..the games afoot!!!

All the best,
Jim

22nd May 2005, 08:59 PM	#3
Fromhold K. Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Estonia Posts: 6	Jim, I knew soon after starting the project that it's formidable and has immense number of resources . So probably it turns out to be quite general work and a prologue to my MA (as I hope). The work is rather interdisciplinary, I try to find how medieval people regarded swords using medieval legends and literature, markings on swords, texts on swords and medieval habits concerning the sword as sources and using the methods of archaeology, history, psychology, folklore and semiotics. Hence the focus is not mottoes and markings only, this is just one way of many attempts to creep into medieval mind . Of course, I do not think that my work is absolute or shows "how things actually were" and what did they "actually" thought (which is quite impossible). The deductions are just some of many possibilities. Last edited by Fromhold K.; 22nd May 2005 at 09:17 PM.

22nd May 2005, 04:45 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,193	Wow! Michal , outstanding resources! Now thats what I'm talkin' about!! Seriously, excellent resources for the study of these markings. It does seem that the German journals carry far more subjective studies concerning the use of the markings that have been carried on trade blades for so many centuries. Very well placed additions as well Jan! I think it is great that you guys offer this kind of assistance as the subject matter here is only ever touched on in extremely esoteric resources, and as mentioned these are seldom available here in the west, and then there is for many of us the language barrier. It is very kind for you to offer translating help. Fromhold, I think it you have chosen a fascinating topic, but certainly a formidable one. I am unclear on your thesis though. Your title "The Meaning and Symbolism of the Sword in Medieval Society" ...are you focused on the sword as a symbolic and traditional weapon, or is the digression to the assorted markings and mottos etc. the actual focus? The numerous books by Ewart Oakeshott carry probably the most interesting treatment of the sword itself and its importance in chivalry, but there are a number of other titles that describe similar perspective. His books also include the earlier periods which are key as well. The topic of the markings, mottoes and certain blade motif is vast and seldom focused on in most resources on weapons subjectively, except in the references already presented and occasional others equally esoteric. If you are categorically collecting examples of these, it seems most are noted in either footnotes or captions in the catalogs of museums, collections, auctions etc. and of course in the reference titles we often refer to here. As far as the development, meaning and application of these noted examples, there has always been casual speculation and discussion, but seldom conclusive material. Again, Oakeshott probably has the best perspective on these in his titles, especially "The Archaeology of Weapons". Check our search feature for key topics, and titles. We try to use references whenever possible so that further research can be done by those so interested in a certain topic and often these titles can be obtained through interlibrary loan. As always, please feel free to contact via PM, and we can all help with specific questions. Very much looking forward to progress on your work!!! All the best, Jim

22nd May 2005, 11:08 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,193	Hi Fromhold, Thank you for going into the dynamics of your study, which really helps know more about how we can help. Actually the very elements you have described have been pretty much the basis of the study of swords and weapons in general for most of us for the time we have pursued this history. While we focus on ethnographic examples from various regions intermittantly, most of the time we return to the earlier swords in studying the development of the many later forms. It seems almost like 'sword geneology' if I could chose an analogy, and the medieval period is especially interesting to most of us here. The thread you have started with the actual names of swords is also very interesting and it was very prudent of you to isolate that topic so it might be addressed with more focus separately. I think we'll all head for the bookshelves to see what curious notes and anecdotes we can find that might apply to your subject matter...as we always say..the games afoot!!! All the best, Jim