Stone club.

fearn · 30th December 2009, 09:33 PM

Privet. Hmmmm. Interesting finding. I don't see a lowland tropical Ligustrum species on the list yet, so I'm not buying Torres Strait Islands. Without testing the bark binding (hey, why not disassemble it completely and test the rock head too?

) I think the best guess is that the handle came out of someone's hedge or weed patch.

Great that you're doing this research, Tim. At least, now we know where to go when we have these types of questions next time.

Best,

F

Tim Simmons · 31st December 2009, 02:08 PM

What does the Australian Privet Hawk Moth grub eat?

fearn · 31st December 2009, 03:53 PM

Ummmmmm, the privet hawk moth (Psilogramma menephron) caterpillars eat members of the families Bignoniaceae and Oleaceae, including "olive trees (Olea europaea, OLEACEAE), but is perhaps most often found in suburbia on privet (Ligustrum vulgare, OLEACEAE ), jasmine (Jasminum officinale, OLEACEAE ), and Australian native olive (Olea paniculata, OLEACEAE)" (ref). You were perhaps expecting that because it is found in the tropical Pacific, therefore privet is found there too?

Best,

F

Tim Simmons · 1st January 2010, 02:51 PM

F, are you stating that there are no Australasia Ligustrum, native Privets or related species? Dr Gasson did say "closest anatomical match". Perhaps you have access to better examples to match the results too? If so that would greatly help your most learned contributions so far to the thread.

Bryan.H · 1st January 2010, 03:27 PM

In Australia, the Ligustrum privet species (some of which are classified as introduced and pests where they are prolific) are sometimes easily confused with the native Grey Myrtle shrub/ tree [BACKHOUSIA MYRTIFOLIA] . The wood from this tree is recorded as being favoured by aboriginal groups in Queensland specifically for axe handles! and also known locally in the past as 'neverbreak' wood...so it's not impossible for this club to be of Northern Australian provenance.

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache...&ct=clnk&gl=au

Grey Myrtle

Ligustrum privet

Tim Simmons · 1st January 2010, 04:14 PM

Perhaps it is privet/olive like plant family-Oleaceae all would be to some degree similar?, that is far more inclusive though.

Thanks Bryan Northern Australia is of course where flint mines are mentioned in a much earlier link.

I think Ligustrum undulatum is a native Australian privet. I imagine they are all quite hard and useful for tools and utensils.

fearn · 1st January 2010, 11:13 PM

Hi All,

Thing to watch (as Tim already noticed) is the scientific name, not the common name. The wood expert narrowed it to either Ligustrum or something similar to it in the Oleaceae (the olive family).

I'm being annoying in pointing out that I'm not seeing evidence of a tropical privet. Northern Australia is tropical, and Torres Islands are further north (e.g. closer to the equator) than mainland Australia. The fact that the Privet hawk moth is all through the Pacific isn't good evidence, because it eats things other than privet.

Now, I don't have university access right now, so I can't easily find out if there's a close tropical relative of Ligustrum hanging out in the Torres Strait area. If the wood is privet (e.g. Ligustrum species), it strongly suggests that the club was made in a subtropical or temperate setting, somewhere where privet grows.

Best,

F

1st January 2010, 03:27 PM	#5
Bryan.H Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 51	Possibility for Wood identification?? In Australia, the Ligustrum privet species (some of which are classified as introduced and pests where they are prolific) are sometimes easily confused with the native Grey Myrtle shrub/ tree [BACKHOUSIA MYRTIFOLIA] . The wood from this tree is recorded as being favoured by aboriginal groups in Queensland specifically for axe handles! and also known locally in the past as 'neverbreak' wood...so it's not impossible for this club to be of Northern Australian provenance. http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache...&ct=clnk&gl=au Grey Myrtle Ligustrum privet Last edited by Bryan.H; 1st January 2010 at 03:59 PM.

1st January 2010, 04:14 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,844	Perhaps it is privet/olive like plant family-Oleaceae all would be to some degree similar?, that is far more inclusive though. Thanks Bryan Northern Australia is of course where flint mines are mentioned in a much earlier link. I think Ligustrum undulatum is a native Australian privet. I imagine they are all quite hard and useful for tools and utensils. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 1st January 2010 at 08:19 PM.

30th December 2009, 09:33 PM	#1
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Privet. Hmmmm. Interesting finding. I don't see a lowland tropical Ligustrum species on the list yet, so I'm not buying Torres Strait Islands. Without testing the bark binding (hey, why not disassemble it completely and test the rock head too? ) I think the best guess is that the handle came out of someone's hedge or weed patch. Great that you're doing this research, Tim. At least, now we know where to go when we have these types of questions next time. Best, F

31st December 2009, 02:08 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,844	What does the Australian Privet Hawk Moth grub eat?

31st December 2009, 03:53 PM	#3
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Ummmmmm, the privet hawk moth (Psilogramma menephron) caterpillars eat members of the families Bignoniaceae and Oleaceae, including "olive trees (Olea europaea, OLEACEAE), but is perhaps most often found in suburbia on privet (Ligustrum vulgare, OLEACEAE ), jasmine (Jasminum officinale, OLEACEAE ), and Australian native olive (Olea paniculata, OLEACEAE)" (ref). You were perhaps expecting that because it is found in the tropical Pacific, therefore privet is found there too? Best, F

1st January 2010, 02:51 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,844	F, are you stating that there are no Australasia Ligustrum, native Privets or related species? Dr Gasson did say "closest anatomical match". Perhaps you have access to better examples to match the results too? If so that would greatly help your most learned contributions so far to the thread.

1st January 2010, 11:13 PM	#7
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi All, Thing to watch (as Tim already noticed) is the scientific name, not the common name. The wood expert narrowed it to either Ligustrum or something similar to it in the Oleaceae (the olive family). I'm being annoying in pointing out that I'm not seeing evidence of a tropical privet. Northern Australia is tropical, and Torres Islands are further north (e.g. closer to the equator) than mainland Australia. The fact that the Privet hawk moth is all through the Pacific isn't good evidence, because it eats things other than privet. Now, I don't have university access right now, so I can't easily find out if there's a close tropical relative of Ligustrum hanging out in the Torres Strait area. If the wood is privet (e.g. Ligustrum species), it strongly suggests that the club was made in a subtropical or temperate setting, somewhere where privet grows. Best, F