Breech loading 1450-1550

[Zwielicht]

Matchlock,

Thank you for a photos of breech loading harquebus in the post #5!

But one thing I cannot understand from those photos - where was the hole in the cartridge, through which it's powder charge was ignited, and was the bullet put in the cartridge or right to the barrel before it?

Also, what are the dimensions of this a weapon (at least the basics - length, weight, caliber etc.)

[Matchlock]

Hi Lee,

Thank you so much for deleting those posts containing erraneous thoughts that were not mine! You sure did a great job.

Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

Hi Zwielicht,

The touchhole is on the right hand side of the cartrigde so that its position is within the pan where the ignition takes place, just like on any 'normal' barrel.

As I tried to point out in my thread, for as far as we know from similar 'cartridges' or exchangeable breeches preserved still loaded (I posted one specimen here), we can tell that these insertable devices only contained the powder measure and plug, while the ball was separately shoved into the rear opening of the barrel before inserting and closing the breech shut.

The measurements of the Passau arquebus are:

overall length 107 cm
barrel length 78.9 cm
length of lockplate 35 cm
caliber 1.5 cm
cartridge: length 7.8 cm, outer diameter 2 cm

Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

Author's photos taken in the Hofrüstkammer Vienna.

[Swordfish]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Hi Zwielicht,

The touchhole is on the right hand side of the cartrigde so that its position is within the pan where the ignition takes place, just like on any 'normal' barrel.

As I tried to point out in my thread, for as far as we know from similar 'cartridges' or exchangeable breeches preserved still loaded (I posted one specimen here), we can tell that these insertable devices only contained the powder measure and plug, while the ball was separately shoved into the rear opening of the barrel before inserting and closing the breech shut.

The measurements of the Passau arquebus are:

overall length 107 cm
barrel length 78.9 cm
length of lockplate 35 cm
caliber 1.5 cm
cartridge: length 7.8 cm, outer diameter 2 cm

Best,
Michael

Hallo,

The chambers or cartidges of breech loading handguns were not loded with powder and plug. The attached photo is taken from an article of Zeitschrift für Historische Waffen und Kostümkunde (Volume 9 of 1922, No.4), a standard work on arms and armour, which should be familiar to any who can read German. The photo shows two chambers of breech loading handguns of the 15th Century in the collection of the Berlin armoury. Both chambers contain the original charge of powder and lead bullet. This is a clear indication that at least chambers of small bore were loaded with a lead bullet, and the bullet was not pushed awkward in the rear of the barrel before inserting the chamber.

Best wishes

Susi

[Matchlock]

Hi Susi and welcome here,

Thank you for your interesting input from the Zeitschrift für historische Waffen- und Kostümkunde. I have been a member of their society for 30 years and own all their volumes from 1897 thru 2010.

First, these are by no means exchangebale breeches for 'handguns' but for cannon! Portable handguns of the 15th century had small bores of ca. 12-16 mm and their breech chamber never had handles; they had no grips at all and and an overall length of only ca. 6-8 cm. Please cf. the measurements of the 1540 Passau arquebus breech chamber you cited!

Second, these seem to be exceptions to the rule. For these unregulated ages, almost anything was possible in general. As I noted though earlier in this thread, we know of other loaded breech loading cannon chambers only containing powder and wooden plug, and attached I repost my own photos of one of them. The rest of the original handle can bee seen.
Similar ones were found on the wreck of the Mary Rose, sunken in 1545, also just loaded with powder and plug.

'Nando, my dear friend, would you mind posting good images and measurements of your ca. 1440 fine cannon chamber as this is almost identical to the ones preserved in Berlin?

Best,
Michael

[fernando]

There you are
Bore about 30 mm.
Length 230 mm.
Width at base: 65 mm.
Weight: 3,135 Kg.

.. The wooden set up picture is a bonus

.

[Matchlock]

Thank you, 'Nando,

And congratulations!

Best,
Michl

[Swordfish]

Originally Posted by fernando

There you are
Bore about 30 mm.
Length 230 mm.
Width at base: 65 mm.
Weight: 3,135 Kg.

.. The wooden set up picture is a bonus

.

Hallo,

it doesn`t matter if these are chambers of small cannons, the
interesting fact is that they were loaded with a bullet. If even
chambers of cannons were loaded in this way, surely the
chambers of small handguns, where the chamber and barrel
have exactly the same bore, were loaded with a bullet.

Best wishes

[Spiridonov]

Michael, do You have a more qualitative photo of muzzle end of this barrel or high resolution of this photo?

[Matchlock]

Alexender,


I attached the only other image I have of this gun, plus a magnified detail; sorry.

I expect the muzzle to look very similar to that of my 1481 Munich/Passau barrel though, with a bell-shaped mouth (bottom attachments).

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7107



Best,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

Thank You, Michael! It's enough to understand the shape of the barrel end

[Matchlock]

The iron wedge is also retained.

Found on a dealer's site, labeled 'sold'.


m

[Matchlock]

For a highly interesting 'military' breechloading matchlock petronel, Suhl, ca. 1590-1600, please see
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...182#post169182

m

[Itaca]

Hi friends you compliment for the pieces that you have....
I believe that this is the correct topic for this reed of mine.

Do you think that it is of 1700 1800?
Do I believe that it misses the final part of the reed that was circular perhaps correct?
Total length 24 cms.
I calibrate inside (muzle) 1,3 / 1,4 cms.
Octagonal section.
Opposite extremity to the mouth 3 / 3,2 cms.
The space to entertain a settled handle is long 1,4 cms. and it is found in the right side.

Can you tell me more?
You excuse for mine bad English