Tulwar markings?

RSWORD · 21st May 2005, 01:56 AM

I have heard of the stamped marks being referred to as "eyelash" or "sickle" marks. They could be armoury marks from an unknown armoury. Not much is known on armoury markings for Indian swords. The marks probably first originated as imitations of similar marks found on early European swords and I believe these marks were thought to originally to be Italian and later copied by other European smiths as marks of quality. India imported large amounts of European blades and probably associated this mark with blades of quality and themselves imitated the mark to portray quality. Jim, I am sure, can expound on these markings but this is a basic introduction.

tom hyle · 21st May 2005, 09:53 AM

The triple dots are said to be a symbol of Tamerlane. Other than that I don't know what they mean (or the "eyelashes", let alone the straight double houndstooth thing.......hmmmmm.....eyelashes or toothy mouths? Are these seen on anything but blades? Both the triple dots and the "eyelashes" are common and widespread on swords from India to Mooroco, in my experience. The triple dots are usually in a smaller triangle, it seems to me, and I haven't seen them as little "hollow" circles, but it still looks like the same mark; 3 dots, individually struck (note the irregular orientation) but intended in an equalateral triangle. All the marks look larger and crisper and better defined than is usual; I don't neccessarily want to up and call that a mark of modernity, but I'm not sure what it is. Likewise I don't know about the double "eyelashes" facing each other like that on a SE blade; it is somewhat my impression they tend to occur in "ones" on SE blades, and seem to relate somehow to the edge. Sword appears to be foled steel?

capt.smash · 21st May 2005, 05:40 PM

HI guys thanks for the replys

i havent actualy got my hands on this yet i braught it on impulse....however the more i look at it now the more i suspect that it is newer than i thaught...its just seems to prestine ,flawless blade edge no real ware to the inlay on handle...hmmm

.Tom

the blade does seem folded there are definate cold shuts on one side of the blade so i think the blade is functional....here are some aditional pics.What do you think am i a sucker?

Aqtai · 21st May 2005, 05:44 PM

I don't really know much about tulwars, although I have seen them at Militaria fairs. I don't know if it's just the angle at which the photo was taken, but is that blade a bit short?

capt.smash · 21st May 2005, 05:53 PM

I think its just the angle the blade is 28"

derek · 21st May 2005, 07:11 PM

Hi,

Two questions: is the blade sharp, or has it been sharpened at some stage?

Is that a hint of a wootz pattern, or is the pic fooling me?

I've seen easily over 100 "tourist" market swords from Iran and Rajastan, and NONE of them ever had a sharpened blade, and none of them showed a wootz pattern, but nearly always a definite mechanical damascus pattern.

Yours doesn't look like them, at least from your pics. Even the koftgari looks different. It may not be ancient, but looks to be a serviceable fighting sword.

-d

capt.smash · 21st May 2005, 07:25 PM

Hi

im not sure yet how sharp it is as it hasnt arived yet.It was the sugestion of wootz that made me go for it

but now ive looked at the pics again im not optomistic.

M.carter · 21st May 2005, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derek

Hi,

Two questions: is the blade sharp, or has it been sharpened at some stage?

Is that a hint of a wootz pattern, or is the pic fooling me?

I've seen easily over 100 "tourist" market swords from Iran and Rajastan, and NONE of them ever had a sharpened blade, and none of them showed a wootz pattern, but nearly always a definite mechanical damascus pattern.

Yours doesn't look like them, at least from your pics. Even the koftgari looks different. It may not be ancient, but looks to be a serviceable fighting sword.

-d

I stand to back Dereks post. I've also seen the junk coming out of India lately in Kuwait, most are antiqued and have very loose hilts, and etched on the forte "Made in India". Yours Captain, is certainly not among those. I believe you have a genuine item, I especially like that curve on your sword.

21st May 2005, 05:40 PM	#3
capt.smash Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Devon ,England Posts: 80	HI guys thanks for the replys i havent actualy got my hands on this yet i braught it on impulse....however the more i look at it now the more i suspect that it is newer than i thaught...its just seems to prestine ,flawless blade edge no real ware to the inlay on handle...hmmm .Tom the blade does seem folded there are definate cold shuts on one side of the blade so i think the blade is functional....here are some aditional pics.What do you think am i a sucker? Attached Images

21st May 2005, 05:53 PM	#5
capt.smash Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Devon ,England Posts: 80	I think its just the angle the blade is 28" Attached Images

21st May 2005, 01:56 AM	#1
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,086	I have heard of the stamped marks being referred to as "eyelash" or "sickle" marks. They could be armoury marks from an unknown armoury. Not much is known on armoury markings for Indian swords. The marks probably first originated as imitations of similar marks found on early European swords and I believe these marks were thought to originally to be Italian and later copied by other European smiths as marks of quality. India imported large amounts of European blades and probably associated this mark with blades of quality and themselves imitated the mark to portray quality. Jim, I am sure, can expound on these markings but this is a basic introduction.

21st May 2005, 09:53 AM	#2
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	The triple dots are said to be a symbol of Tamerlane. Other than that I don't know what they mean (or the "eyelashes", let alone the straight double houndstooth thing.......hmmmmm.....eyelashes or toothy mouths? Are these seen on anything but blades? Both the triple dots and the "eyelashes" are common and widespread on swords from India to Mooroco, in my experience. The triple dots are usually in a smaller triangle, it seems to me, and I haven't seen them as little "hollow" circles, but it still looks like the same mark; 3 dots, individually struck (note the irregular orientation) but intended in an equalateral triangle. All the marks look larger and crisper and better defined than is usual; I don't neccessarily want to up and call that a mark of modernity, but I'm not sure what it is. Likewise I don't know about the double "eyelashes" facing each other like that on a SE blade; it is somewhat my impression they tend to occur in "ones" on SE blades, and seem to relate somehow to the edge. Sword appears to be foled steel?

21st May 2005, 05:44 PM	#4
Aqtai Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Merseyside, UK Posts: 222	I don't really know much about tulwars, although I have seen them at Militaria fairs. I don't know if it's just the angle at which the photo was taken, but is that blade a bit short?

21st May 2005, 07:11 PM	#6
derek Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 215	Hi, Two questions: is the blade sharp, or has it been sharpened at some stage? Is that a hint of a wootz pattern, or is the pic fooling me? I've seen easily over 100 "tourist" market swords from Iran and Rajastan, and NONE of them ever had a sharpened blade, and none of them showed a wootz pattern, but nearly always a definite mechanical damascus pattern. Yours doesn't look like them, at least from your pics. Even the koftgari looks different. It may not be ancient, but looks to be a serviceable fighting sword. -d

21st May 2005, 07:25 PM	#7
capt.smash Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Devon ,England Posts: 80	Hi im not sure yet how sharp it is as it hasnt arived yet.It was the sugestion of wootz that made me go for it but now ive looked at the pics again im not optomistic.