Drum like flyssa marking

[Jim McDougall]

Thanks for answering Dom and Emanuel, and for the info.
In checking through some photos of flyssa hilts, and noticed that the triangular geometrics (as in the 'fibula' linear on the blade) are sometimes in the hourglass shape on the hilt in places.
As I recall, the shape of the figure on the example I refer to, was much more 'dimensional' and seemed to have lines through it or over it, resembling those on these hourglass shape pressure drums.

The vast distances through these desert regions are indeed formidable, and it is always amazing to look at the incredible trade networks that crisscross these regions. These are of course key in trying to follow some of the many weapon diffusions that present the complexities in understanding African arms. Naturally, rather than single trans Saharan journeys, the networking between various centers and interactions there, with materials and traded wares then following various routes resulted in these carried far and wide.

Factor in the nonspecific and ever changing boundaries of nomadic tribes, as well as interaction along these routes including raiding and more hospitable contact, the equation compounds dramatically

Dom, I never underestimate your very astute 'points of view'!!! and I am hoping that something similar with show up with the outstanding and comprehensive collections I know are out there with the Africa enthusiasts.

Emanuel, I always recall your keen interest in flyssas, and hoped you would come in on this.

Thanks so much guys!

All best regards,
Jim

[Emanuel]

Hi Jim,

While gathering material on Kabylia and the Iflissen, I found these pictures of motifs used on traditional Kabyle pottery. Notice that one symbol, the double drum means "axe", while the double zigzaging lines could mean "arrow" or "mosquito". I will keep looking at the various symbols we sometimes see on flyssas.

Will you be at this year's Timonium?

All the best!
Emanuel

[tom hyle]

I did not know about the use of talking drums by Afrasians (ex. Berbers), but among the Bantus (ie formerly "negroes") to their South/West talking drums and talking trumpets are traditionally very important royal/warfare tools for their instant communication power.
Flyssa per se is AFAIK a Kabyle tribe weapon, but a whole slew of awfully flyssa-like kodmes etc. ("wedding banquet nimchas") seem to be more widely distributed.

[kronckew]

there is a drum-like object on the port side of my flyssa near the integral bolster. the carry strap is on the bolster side of the 'drum' (1st photo attached)

interestingly, there is a khukuri kami (blacksmith) in nepal that uses a similar Madal Drum (<-linky) mark (2nd photo) with the strap. jokingly referred to as the 'beer mug' kami. More Madal Drums <-linky - shows vertically displayed drums with cords curlicued off in similar to the curled lines off my flyssa 'drum', they appear to be the ends of the cords used to mount & tighten the drumheads, left long but curled up.

edited:
p.s. - i thought i remembered us discussing this in a flyssa thread before. heck, it was 4 years ago!

HERE

i'd posted pics of mine there but the decoration was not clearly what jim mentioned in his post #13 & it didn't sink in with me at the time.

[tom hyle]

drums of War are signal drums other cultures, too, of course

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Emanuel, Tom and Kronckew for reviving this old thread! I still find the symbolism and motif on the flyssa fascinating, especially these odd variations from the somewhat standard geometrics. While I dont have my old notes handy at the moment, this sure makes me want to find them. It seems like somewhere the drum served as some kind of symbol of authority.

On the 'talking drums' it seems that as Tom notes, they were closely associated with Bantu speaking people as well as most West African regions.
I have the book on these drum signals but cant recall the title at the moment. It seems that the 'syntax' has to do somewhat with the dialects and languages that incorporate sounds like clicking, but again, details not handy at the moment. Naturally 'Hollywood' has made pretty much a cliche' out of these drum signals and messages, but they really are a fascinating and viable means of communication of these intriguing tribal peoples.

Best regards,
Jim

[tom hyle]

The syntax is based on spoken speach and progresses by means of the ability to produce two distinct tones, from what I've read and heard

[katana]

Just a few observations of the symbols shown by Emanuel....and a few thoughts 'outside the box' ....so bear with me

The symbol for lune (moon) and that of marteau (hammer) are very similar (related ?). Which makes me wonder about several possibillities.

If this symbolism is widely accepted across the Saharal regions ....could this indicate the reason of the the moon symbols on Tabouka ? It is interesting that the moon and hammer symbols seemed linked perhaps because...

The hammer is the main tool of the blacksmith/bladesmith.
Forging during the day with the heat of the sun and forge would be 'uncomfortable'....perhaps dusk/evening would be prefered ?
Whilst heat treating the steel the 'colour' of the steel would need to be acurately gauged....dusk/night time might be much better conditions than direct sunlight ?

Could evening be the best time to forge blades ...hence the hammer and moon link ?? Could a blade forged at 'night' be considered a better blade and the moon mark be a sign of quality ??

My other observation is the Soleil (Sun) symbol ...it is almost an interpretation of the famed 'eyelash' mark ???? Perhaps coincidence ....but interesting never the less.

Regards David