The Kingdom.

[drdavid]

Fascinating discussion, thank you to everyone contributing.

For me Alan's comments regarding time and cultural context are the nub of this keris thing

There is one particular difficulty in using this approach with the keris, and that is that any understanding which we may reach needs to be constrained within a matrixical description that takes account of time.

The difficulties here are about gathering information that is moderately accurate, and having sufficient cultural insight to weave that information into an acceptable semblence of a story. The information available to me about the past of this region seems biased by external cultural nuance be it Western or Islamic, or semi-mythological local tradition which is overlaid with the mists of time (a little like Excalibur and the Arthurian tradition).

I appreciate I know nothing of keris. I also know very little about IA however if modern IA techniques require detailed analysis of a system by gathering information about the system and adding expert commentary I struggle to see how they can be applied effectively to traditional keris culture. In the first instance the information sources are biased or folkloric or not truly getting to the heart of the system (for example I dont think classification systems tell us much about keris in their original cultural context). On the second count although we have current experts we have little or no information that I am aware of that stems from experts "in the time of keris".

This is not to say we should not ask the questions, however it does appear that many of our answers will remain speculative unless some unusual trick of fate reveals sources not previously known.

cheers
David