GUNONG

Rick · 17th May 2005, 10:19 PM

About a Luzon provenance for your latest example .
The scabbard has a very strong flavor of Mindanao IMO .
Quite similar to the various Women's work knives we see .

Bill · 17th May 2005, 11:41 PM

as often said, its hard to tell from pictures. The sheath is old, it shows wear marks that should continue, some what, onto the silver work but doesn't apear to. It would make no sense for updating the sheath to silver work without replacing the wood, unless you wanted to make the piece look old, which the original wearer would not. The silver looks to be a very thin guage compared to what we normaly see. As the silver is turned there is some slight bends, in time & with use they would spread out and look like multiple depressions instead of bends. The twisted silver wire looks modern machine made. The stampings are not what is common on Moro pieces, they are well formed & should have deposits that are almost impossible to clean without removing from the hilt. The coin looks to have been put through some sort of rolling mill, the center cut with nice square corners, instead of filed. All these things give me the feel that all the silver work is less then 25 yrs, just my opinion. I'm sure you could take it to a old fashion jeweler, & get a good estimate on when the work was done.

nechesh · 18th May 2005, 01:16 AM

Well, as you say Bill, pictures can be deceptive. The silver on the sheath and ferrule isn't particlarly thin at all and seems a fairly pure quality. a close examination of the wire work gives me no impression whatsoever that it is machine made. I am not sure what you mean about the coin being "rolled", but it appears to be at it's original thickness and the designs on both sides have usual circulation wear. On close examination the cut is not so clean. Two corners are straight, the other two not. As someone who has had experience filing silver i will say that the work could well have been done by hand without machinery. The wood of the sheath is, unlike the handle, a rather soft wood. It would have marred fairly easily while the much harder silver would not. The blade and the the wood of the sheath are obviously old. I don't know what Rick paid for this item, but i bought it from him for $99 bucks. It seems to me that to do this kind of work on this gunong, even 25 yrs. ago, to try to deceive a buyer into thinking it was old and original to reap a higher price would not be worth it in the end for the seller. But certainly your opinion, even if true, would not take away from my appreciation of the piece.

I am much more interested in the historical perspective of the weapon in general, it's origins and place in the cultural hierachy.

nechesh · 25th May 2005, 02:15 AM

Bill was kind enough to send me this link a while back and i was just waiting for the auction to end to post it, but it slipped my mind. This is the very same type of coin from which the cross piece is made. I almost bid on this so i could have a spare part.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1

Battara · 26th May 2005, 05:56 AM

Yup. I have a similar Mexican silver coin. This was not to fool anyone but was easier than having to make a new (at the time) guard out of casting silver (and less work). I have seen this before and on a sipput barong I sold to someone at Timonium recently. I agree with Bill in that I would not worry about the scabbard. Nice puppy. Thought about it myself when Rsword brought it to the show here in Louisville (but ran out of money

).

17th May 2005, 10:19 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Not So Sure About a Luzon provenance for your latest example . The scabbard has a very strong flavor of Mindanao IMO . Quite similar to the various Women's work knives we see .

18th May 2005, 01:16 AM	#3
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Well, as you say Bill, pictures can be deceptive. The silver on the sheath and ferrule isn't particlarly thin at all and seems a fairly pure quality. a close examination of the wire work gives me no impression whatsoever that it is machine made. I am not sure what you mean about the coin being "rolled", but it appears to be at it's original thickness and the designs on both sides have usual circulation wear. On close examination the cut is not so clean. Two corners are straight, the other two not. As someone who has had experience filing silver i will say that the work could well have been done by hand without machinery. The wood of the sheath is, unlike the handle, a rather soft wood. It would have marred fairly easily while the much harder silver would not. The blade and the the wood of the sheath are obviously old. I don't know what Rick paid for this item, but i bought it from him for $99 bucks. It seems to me that to do this kind of work on this gunong, even 25 yrs. ago, to try to deceive a buyer into thinking it was old and original to reap a higher price would not be worth it in the end for the seller. But certainly your opinion, even if true, would not take away from my appreciation of the piece. I am much more interested in the historical perspective of the weapon in general, it's origins and place in the cultural hierachy. Last edited by nechesh; 18th May 2005 at 01:28 AM.

17th May 2005, 11:41 PM	#2
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	as often said, its hard to tell from pictures. The sheath is old, it shows wear marks that should continue, some what, onto the silver work but doesn't apear to. It would make no sense for updating the sheath to silver work without replacing the wood, unless you wanted to make the piece look old, which the original wearer would not. The silver looks to be a very thin guage compared to what we normaly see. As the silver is turned there is some slight bends, in time & with use they would spread out and look like multiple depressions instead of bends. The twisted silver wire looks modern machine made. The stampings are not what is common on Moro pieces, they are well formed & should have deposits that are almost impossible to clean without removing from the hilt. The coin looks to have been put through some sort of rolling mill, the center cut with nice square corners, instead of filed. All these things give me the feel that all the silver work is less then 25 yrs, just my opinion. I'm sure you could take it to a old fashion jeweler, & get a good estimate on when the work was done.

25th May 2005, 02:15 AM	#4
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Bill was kind enough to send me this link a while back and i was just waiting for the auction to end to post it, but it slipped my mind. This is the very same type of coin from which the cross piece is made. I almost bid on this so i could have a spare part. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1

26th May 2005, 05:56 AM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Yup. I have a similar Mexican silver coin. This was not to fool anyone but was easier than having to make a new (at the time) guard out of casting silver (and less work). I have seen this before and on a sipput barong I sold to someone at Timonium recently. I agree with Bill in that I would not worry about the scabbard. Nice puppy. Thought about it myself when Rsword brought it to the show here in Louisville (but ran out of money ).