Gilded and painted Keris for viewing

Gavin Nugent · 19th November 2009, 01:23 AM

Rick,

In general just the first four inches from the hilt as a whole I find interesting and unusual, the "fullers" the shapes, dips and curves.

I think for me, differentiating pamor or the subtle luks is beyond my understandings to be able to grasp fully,

but I am willing to listen if the information can be offered as it would be interesting to know and it would offer points of reference for my own readings when time permits. Others might also want to know these technical aspects of this piece

Best

Gav

David · 19th November 2009, 01:33 AM

It's certainly a nice blade, but i don't find the fullers all that unusual for a Bali blade.
I also have a old Bali sunggingan that i will post in the next day or so. Interestingly mine does have a hilt which has also been painted in relation to the sheath.

Gavin Nugent · 19th November 2009, 01:54 AM

Great David,

I look forward to viewing it.

I agree Bali Keris do have fullers similar to this and in these positions but there are subtle differences in the flow and depth of the curves that my eyes are drawn too. It may be nothing but I thought to ask. I'll try to get some comparative images of the other Bali keris blade I have here to see if I can highlight it better. It may just be a case of the pamor on this piece making it look different.

Regards

Gav

A. G. Maisey · 19th November 2009, 02:35 AM

I can see nothing unusual at all in this blade.

The garap is fair average quality for a Bali blade of this vintage. There are minor artistic shortcomings that really do not bear mention, and can simply be written off as the maker's style.

To my eyes its just a pretty usual sort of old Bali blade.

What makes the whole thing nice is the old blade + old sunggingan in pretty good condition + the sunggingan is well preserved + the blade has what appears to be a nice old stain + the hilt is not bad either. As a total package its pretty nice and very scarce.

David · 19th November 2009, 02:45 AM

OK, i did manage to find a couple of photos that i already took of this sheath. I will have to take some more to show the whole sheath and the whole hilt. You can see the the hilt has some of the same red paint as the sheath. The pommel is similarly painted. Not in as good condition as Gav's but i think this one might be just a bit older.

A. G. Maisey · 19th November 2009, 05:22 AM

Yep. Nice too.

Any of these old Bali sunggingans are very, very collectable.

Gavin Nugent · 19th November 2009, 06:07 AM

Another I secured recently, still to be posted to me, new or old I couldn't say but the wear looked honest enough without going into too much detail.

I'll submit more images when it arrives.

Thanks for posting the images David, I really enjoy looking at these pieces something the eyes can enjoy all day.

All the best Gav

PS guys, if you got em show them I would love to see more diverstity in painting or gilding.

Marcokeris · 19th November 2009, 06:08 AM

all very nice

gwirya · 2nd February 2010, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I can see nothing unusual at all in this blade.

The garap is fair average quality for a Bali blade of this vintage. There are minor artistic shortcomings that really do not bear mention, and can simply be written off as the maker's style.

To my eyes its just a pretty usual sort of old Bali blade.

What makes the whole thing nice is the old blade + old sunggingan in pretty good condition + the sunggingan is well preserved + the blade has what appears to be a nice old stain + the hilt is not bad either. As a total package its pretty nice and very scarce.

Alan, I am very interested in Bali keris, can you point out where is the minor artistic shortcomings? and what could you expect from the keris above if it is a better quality balinese keris. I know it could be subjective but I want to learn to distinguish small detail garaps that make up the "more than average" keris.

Thx

A. G. Maisey · 2nd February 2010, 08:35 PM

Gwirya, if I had the keris in my hand, and you were sitting beside me, yes, I could show you the things that could have been done better. However, to try to tell you in writing the individual artistic deficiencies would run to far more than I am prepared to write.

I can make an overall comment, and that is there are curved lines where there should be straight lines, there is a lack of definition, there was probably insufficient time spent on layout before the actual carving started, there is inconsistency in repeated features, there is an overall lack of flow.

Its just not top work from an artistic point of view.

But as I said, these are minor deficiencies and really don't bear mention. Not all makers were great artists, and they did not need to be.

gwirya · 4th February 2010, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I can make an overall comment, and that is there are curved lines where there should be straight lines, there is a lack of definition, there was probably insufficient time spent on layout before the actual carving started, there is inconsistency in repeated features, there is an overall lack of flow.

Its just not top work from an artistic point of view.

But as I said, these are minor deficiencies and really don't bear mention. Not all makers were great artists, and they did not need to be.

Alan, Which part is where there are curved lines where there should be straight lines?

Thanks

19th November 2009, 01:23 AM	#1
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	The blade; Rick, In general just the first four inches from the hilt as a whole I find interesting and unusual, the "fullers" the shapes, dips and curves. I think for me, differentiating pamor or the subtle luks is beyond my understandings to be able to grasp fully, but I am willing to listen if the information can be offered as it would be interesting to know and it would offer points of reference for my own readings when time permits. Others might also want to know these technical aspects of this piece Best Gav

19th November 2009, 01:54 AM	#3
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Nice to see another Great David, I look forward to viewing it. I agree Bali Keris do have fullers similar to this and in these positions but there are subtle differences in the flow and depth of the curves that my eyes are drawn too. It may be nothing but I thought to ask. I'll try to get some comparative images of the other Bali keris blade I have here to see if I can highlight it better. It may just be a case of the pamor on this piece making it look different. Regards Gav

19th November 2009, 02:45 AM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	OK, i did manage to find a couple of photos that i already took of this sheath. I will have to take some more to show the whole sheath and the whole hilt. You can see the the hilt has some of the same red paint as the sheath. The pommel is similarly painted. Not in as good condition as Gav's but i think this one might be just a bit older. Attached Images

19th November 2009, 06:07 AM	#7
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Another painted scabbard and hilt Another I secured recently, still to be posted to me, new or old I couldn't say but the wear looked honest enough without going into too much detail. I'll submit more images when it arrives. Thanks for posting the images David, I really enjoy looking at these pieces something the eyes can enjoy all day. All the best Gav PS guys, if you got em show them I would love to see more diverstity in painting or gilding. Attached Images

19th November 2009, 06:08 AM	#8
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	all very nice Last edited by Marcokeris; 19th November 2009 at 12:38 PM.

19th November 2009, 01:33 AM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	It's certainly a nice blade, but i don't find the fullers all that unusual for a Bali blade. I also have a old Bali sunggingan that i will post in the next day or so. Interestingly mine does have a hilt which has also been painted in relation to the sheath.

19th November 2009, 02:35 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	I can see nothing unusual at all in this blade. The garap is fair average quality for a Bali blade of this vintage. There are minor artistic shortcomings that really do not bear mention, and can simply be written off as the maker's style. To my eyes its just a pretty usual sort of old Bali blade. What makes the whole thing nice is the old blade + old sunggingan in pretty good condition + the sunggingan is well preserved + the blade has what appears to be a nice old stain + the hilt is not bad either. As a total package its pretty nice and very scarce.

19th November 2009, 05:22 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Yep. Nice too. Any of these old Bali sunggingans are very, very collectable.

2nd February 2010, 08:35 PM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Gwirya, if I had the keris in my hand, and you were sitting beside me, yes, I could show you the things that could have been done better. However, to try to tell you in writing the individual artistic deficiencies would run to far more than I am prepared to write. I can make an overall comment, and that is there are curved lines where there should be straight lines, there is a lack of definition, there was probably insufficient time spent on layout before the actual carving started, there is inconsistency in repeated features, there is an overall lack of flow. Its just not top work from an artistic point of view. But as I said, these are minor deficiencies and really don't bear mention. Not all makers were great artists, and they did not need to be.