Odd handle for a Kampilan?

[VVV]

Hej Per,

If you have a look in Leiden's picture database you will find resembling ones with hilts like yours collected on Timor (at www.rmv.nl)
This doesn't necessarily mean that yours has to be from Timor but that it probably is an older variation, that somehow survived longer
among the ex-pat Llanuns who were culturally isolated on Timor.
On the blade-tip it resembles a bit one of my older ones (enclosed), even if it goes the other way.
I suspect yours maybe has been reshaped based on what resembled traces after holes from brass-studs and a reshaped tip (maybe broken?)?
Congratulations to a very interesting and rare variation!

Michael

[Rick]

I thought the presence of a fuller somewhat unusual .

[asomotif]

Copied your picture in case the photobucket link disappears in future. Nice handle !

[David]

Originally Posted by asomotif

Copied your picture in case the photobucket link disappears in future. Nice handle !

Thanks Willem, i was just about to do that. Here's the other 2 images.

[carlos]

Hi Per!!

Wellcome to this forum, I think is the best!!
Congratulations with this kampilan, think in this hilt avoid me sleep!!
Best regards
Carlos

[Sajen]

Beautiful kamp! And also an unusual sheat.

sajen

[Rick]

I wonder where the blade was forged; it is very different from the norm .

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by VVV

Hej Per,

If you have a look in Leiden's picture database you will find resembling ones with hilts like yours collected on Timor (at www.rmv.nl)
This doesn't necessarily mean that yours has to be from Timor but that it probably is an older variation, that somehow survived longer
among the ex-pat Llanuns who were culturally isolated on Timor.
On the blade-tip it resembles a bit one of my older ones (enclosed), even if it goes the other way.
I suspect yours maybe has been reshaped based on what resembled traces after holes from brass-studs and a reshaped tip (maybe broken?)?
Congratulations to a very interesting and rare variation!

Michael

Page 71 of Zonneveld's books shows similar form. Timor it seems to be

Gav

[Battara]

Cato in his book Moro Swords also talks about this as a rare form of kampilan.

[VVV]

Originally Posted by Battara

Cato in his book Moro Swords also talks about this as a rare form of kampilan.

On page 59 a resembling one from the Philippines, as Battara mentioned earlier, is commented (maybe somebody else could post a picture as I don't have a camera available at the moment?).
In Foy's book three resembling "horse-head"-kampilans from the Museum of Dresden's collection is attributed to North-Celebes.
I don't really see why Per's and Cato's necessarily should be imported swords from Timor? Or maybe I misunderstood Bill?
The reason that there are several of them in Leiden is probably more based on that the Dutch were "better" in collecting colonial artefacts in Indonesia than the Spanish were in the Philippines. If the Philippines would have been a Dutch colony I am positive that more really old Moro weapons would have been saved.
I also think it's quite obvious that it's a kampilan and have considered van Z's classifying it as a "klewang" as one of the, surprisingly few, minor errors in his book. Unless you want to classify all kampilans as belonging to the klewang-category?

Michael

[Mytribalworld]

[I don't really see why Per's and Cato's necessarily should be imported swords from Timor? Or maybe I misunderstood Bill?
The reason that there are several of them in Leiden is probably more based on that the Dutch were "better" in collecting colonial artefacts in Indonesia than the Spanish were in the Philippines. If the Philippines would have been a Dutch colony I am positive that more really old Moro weapons would have been saved.

Hi,

I agree that it is not likely that sword where exported from Timor.

The other way has more chance I.M.O. note that Timor played an important role in the international trade of Sandalwood ( the only island who had it)
and iron smithing was not practised on Timor for a long time.

and indeed the Dutch where the best in getting the best artefacts.... and they still are

Arjan

[asomotif]

Timor played an important role in the international trade of Sandalwood ( the only island who had it)

There is an interesting dutch book on this topic

[Mytribalworld]

Originally Posted by asomotif

There is an interesting dutch book on this topic

Yes, but mostly I don't have time to read such books, did you ?

[Bill]

Originally Posted by VVV

On page 59 a resembling one from the Philippines, as Battara mentioned earlier, is commented
I don't really see why Per's and Cato's necessarily should be imported swords from Timor? Or maybe I misunderstood Bill?

I also think it's quite obvious that it's a kampilan and have considered van Z's classifying it as a "klewang" as one of the, surprisingly few, minor errors in his book. Unless you want to classify all kampilans as belonging to the klewang-category?

Michael

I agree, it really should be considered a kampilan. My edition of Cato shows it pg. 53, fig 33. It does not appear to be typical of Mindanao kampilans but as we see, there is always exceptions. The blade construction still is problematic for Mindanao being the place of origin.

[Sajen]

Here two fast taken pics from Cato's book, page 53 and from Zonneveld page 71.