Sumatran / Bugis ID

Moshah · 4th November 2009, 08:01 AM

Yeah, I agree with that. Thanks for your opinion, khalifah.

Sheath is Sulawesi, and David has shown me just an exact example.

The hilt, I guess it's Sumatran / Palembang, as you do, albeit I was quite suspicious with the motives. It looks like a modern motives, and the carver seems to have the freedom to carve it out without having any strict motive to follow thru. I might be so wrong, but this is the first time I see this kind of motives on a hilt.

However the blade is still a mystery to me. Some say it's bugis riau, sumatran / palembang (I cast my vote on this), and even javanese! It could be well a mixed bag, like alan's opinion.

How about the blade? Do you really think it was a bugis sumbawa piece? Are there specific garapan / perabot that are referring to sumbawa?

khalifah muda · 4th November 2009, 08:31 AM

Yes, from my view, the blade is Sumbawa prototype/masterpiece as it is more to creative sort of dapur & pamor. Typical to the one i ever browsed with my pair of hands, too bad i didn't have a picture of it.

If the ricikan/greneng not worn off, it can help better in indentifying.

Some typical Sumatran/Palembang piece to share:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moshah

Yeah, I agree with that. Thanks for your opinion, khalifah.

Sheath is Sulawesi, and David has shown me just an exact example.

The hilt, I guess it's Sumatran / Palembang, as you do, albeit I was quite suspicious with the motives. It looks like a modern motives, and the carver seems to have the freedom to carve it out without having any strict motive to follow thru. I might be so wrong, but this is the first time I see this kind of motives on a hilt.

However the blade is still a mystery to me. Some say it's bugis riau, sumatran / palembang (I cast my vote on this), and even javanese! It could be well a mixed bag, like alan's opinion.

How about the blade? Do you really think it was a bugis sumbawa piece? Are there specific garapan / perabot that are referring to sumbawa?

Moshah · 4th November 2009, 10:10 AM

Wow, quite a nice piece you have there! Thanks for sharing those pix!

For the blade discussed, it is actually rather broad, and yes it could be a sumbawa as well. However the pamor works is not something I expect from a sumbawa blade. Pardon my limited knowledge, but I've mostly seen sumbawa with nickel pamor, and the pamor orientation is scattered and very seldom with a specific pamor, moreover pamor miring. But I just don't know, I did not seen enough sumbawa kerises to address a valid comments here, thus I just say what I see...

How about the hilt? Did you recognized the influences? It should have major influences rather than a liberty work of art, didn't it?

khalifah muda · 4th November 2009, 10:16 AM

For the hilt it is hard to say...very subjective....but it has some Sumatran/Palembang influence in the sense of its carving motifs. Borneo also possible. Anyway, nowadays there are alot of skillful keris makers in this region with their own creation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moshah

Wow, quite a nice piece you have there! Thanks for sharing those pix!

For the blade discussed, it is actually rather broad, and yes it could be a sumbawa as well. However the pamor works is not something I expect from a sumbawa blade. Pardon my limited knowledge, but I've mostly seen sumbawa with nickel pamor, and the pamor orientation is scattered and very seldom with a specific pamor, moreover pamor miring. But I just don't know, I did not seen enough sumbawa kerises to address a valid comments here, thus I just say what I see...

How about the hilt? Did you recognized the influences? It should have major influences rather than a liberty work of art, didn't it?

khalifah muda · 4th November 2009, 10:22 AM

'Sumbawa - nickel blade' : For your info. Sumbawa do have blades which comprises of metal composite from nickel, other metals and besi baja.

Quote:

Originally Posted by khalifah muda

For the hilt it is hard to say...very subjective....but it has some Sumatran/Palembang influence in the sense of its carving motifs. Borneo also possible. Anyway, nowadays there are alot of skillful keris makers in this region with their own creation.

Moshah · 4th November 2009, 10:49 AM

That's my point; I've seen most sumbawa with nickel pamors, and of course the besi baja in the middle. I've seen sumbawa with meteorite pamor too, or claimed to be of meteorite pamor. Since there is vivid differences between nickel pamor and meteorite pamor, so I take it as it is told

This blade pamor works are unlike any sumbawa pieces i've ever seen. Obviously no pamor gunungan / junjung darjat at the sorsoran, and I dunno but it doesn't looks like nickel too.

David · 4th November 2009, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moshah

I've seen sumbawa with meteorite pamor too, or claimed to be of meteorite pamor. Since there is vivid differences between nickel pamor and meteorite pamor, so I take it as it is told

This blade pamor works are unlike any sumbawa pieces i've ever seen. Obviously no pamor gunungan / junjung darjat at the sorsoran, and I dunno but it doesn't looks like nickel too.

hmmm.... are you seem to be implying that you suspect the pamor of your keris might be from meteorite? We have had many discussions on these boards about meteoric pamor and the general consensus that i took away from those threads was that it is pretty much near to impossible to identify pamor as definitely being meteorite or not without provenance to support it. I am not sure what "vivid differences" you have noted between terrestrial nickel meteoric pamor and one should keep in mind that meteoric pamor generally is nickel, just not nickel from a terrestrial source.

4th November 2009, 08:01 AM	#1
Moshah Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 171	Yeah, I agree with that. Thanks for your opinion, khalifah. Sheath is Sulawesi, and David has shown me just an exact example. The hilt, I guess it's Sumatran / Palembang, as you do, albeit I was quite suspicious with the motives. It looks like a modern motives, and the carver seems to have the freedom to carve it out without having any strict motive to follow thru. I might be so wrong, but this is the first time I see this kind of motives on a hilt. However the blade is still a mystery to me. Some say it's bugis riau, sumatran / palembang (I cast my vote on this), and even javanese! It could be well a mixed bag, like alan's opinion. How about the blade? Do you really think it was a bugis sumbawa piece? Are there specific garapan / perabot that are referring to sumbawa?

4th November 2009, 10:10 AM	#3
Moshah Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 171	Wow, quite a nice piece you have there! Thanks for sharing those pix! For the blade discussed, it is actually rather broad, and yes it could be a sumbawa as well. However the pamor works is not something I expect from a sumbawa blade. Pardon my limited knowledge, but I've mostly seen sumbawa with nickel pamor, and the pamor orientation is scattered and very seldom with a specific pamor, moreover pamor miring. But I just don't know, I did not seen enough sumbawa kerises to address a valid comments here, thus I just say what I see... How about the hilt? Did you recognized the influences? It should have major influences rather than a liberty work of art, didn't it?

4th November 2009, 10:49 AM	#6
Moshah Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 171	That's my point; I've seen most sumbawa with nickel pamors, and of course the besi baja in the middle. I've seen sumbawa with meteorite pamor too, or claimed to be of meteorite pamor. Since there is vivid differences between nickel pamor and meteorite pamor, so I take it as it is told This blade pamor works are unlike any sumbawa pieces i've ever seen. Obviously no pamor gunungan / junjung darjat at the sorsoran, and I dunno but it doesn't looks like nickel too.