Stone club.

Atlantia · 1st November 2009, 03:58 PM

Comming in rather late here.
Looks very neolithic to me. A poor flint or /often refered to as chert (sometimes not entirely accurately).
I find the simple shaping also reminds me of neolithic tools.
Any chance its a victorian 'authentic' rehafting of a British Neolithic club?
I've seen EBA stuff remounted in the 19thC.

Tim Simmons · 1st November 2009, 08:19 PM

If it is Australian or even Australasian the the analysis should have no problem in finding the answer. It is what I have thought right from the start. The problem lies in the cell structure of a genus that is common to vast areas of the world like Oak. I bet the wood is from the southern hemisphere anyway.

fearn · 1st November 2009, 08:56 PM

Good luck, Tim.

I suspect you'll get a good answer on the wood ID if it's tropical. Even oak wood is variable enough that they can get it to at least subgenus, if not species. The only challenge is whether they have that species in their type collection or not.

On the other hand, it's good to know that we came up with the same answer as the collections managers of the British Museum (i.e. what the heck is it?). Kudos to us.

Best,

F

Tim Simmons · 30th December 2009, 02:50 PM

Email to me, 30 December 2009

Dear Mr Simmons

I have now microscopically examined the wood fragments we took from your club handle on 30 October. The closest anatomical match I can find is with the wood of Ligustrum sp., Privet. There are about 40 species in this genus, 1 in Europe, 1 in North Africa but most in East and Southeast Asia. This does seem to throw some doubt on the club being from southern South America, but depending on its age there is always the possibility that the wood was imported.

Yours sincerely

Peter Gasson

Dr Peter Gasson
Jodrell Laboratory
Royal Botanic Gardens
Kew
Richmond
Surrey
TW9 3DS

So no actual species identified but with further research on the net, species of the genus Ligustrum are found throughout Malaysia to Australia. I do not have the funds to get the results photographed and pursue this course of enquiry further worldwide. However I do feel that the results give some backing to my original opinions and findings on the object. I do not know how early non-native Privet were introduced to Australia but can say that {ref the wire on the handle} telecommunication started from the late 1850s.

30th December 2009, 02:50 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,922	Kew results, good in parts. Email to me, 30 December 2009 Dear Mr Simmons I have now microscopically examined the wood fragments we took from your club handle on 30 October. The closest anatomical match I can find is with the wood of Ligustrum sp., Privet. There are about 40 species in this genus, 1 in Europe, 1 in North Africa but most in East and Southeast Asia. This does seem to throw some doubt on the club being from southern South America, but depending on its age there is always the possibility that the wood was imported. Yours sincerely Peter Gasson Dr Peter Gasson Jodrell Laboratory Royal Botanic Gardens Kew Richmond Surrey TW9 3DS So no actual species identified but with further research on the net, species of the genus Ligustrum are found throughout Malaysia to Australia. I do not have the funds to get the results photographed and pursue this course of enquiry further worldwide. However I do feel that the results give some backing to my original opinions and findings on the object. I do not know how early non-native Privet were introduced to Australia but can say that {ref the wire on the handle} telecommunication started from the late 1850s.

1st November 2009, 03:58 PM	#1
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Comming in rather late here. Looks very neolithic to me. A poor flint or /often refered to as chert (sometimes not entirely accurately). I find the simple shaping also reminds me of neolithic tools. Any chance its a victorian 'authentic' rehafting of a British Neolithic club? I've seen EBA stuff remounted in the 19thC.

1st November 2009, 08:19 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,922	If it is Australian or even Australasian the the analysis should have no problem in finding the answer. It is what I have thought right from the start. The problem lies in the cell structure of a genus that is common to vast areas of the world like Oak. I bet the wood is from the southern hemisphere anyway.

1st November 2009, 08:56 PM	#3
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Good luck, Tim. I suspect you'll get a good answer on the wood ID if it's tropical. Even oak wood is variable enough that they can get it to at least subgenus, if not species. The only challenge is whether they have that species in their type collection or not. On the other hand, it's good to know that we came up with the same answer as the collections managers of the British Museum (i.e. what the heck is it?). Kudos to us. Best, F