Gold Cross on top of Pesi

A. G. Maisey · 1st November 2009, 08:17 AM

Moshah's translation is near enough, but in English, we would write the idea conveyed like this:-

Pesi tapak jalak, on the surface of the tip there are two crossed lines, like a plus (+) sign, which are filled with gold or silver; by a part of the community this is considered to have a certain talismanic value.

Moshah · 1st November 2009, 08:41 AM

That would be the right one.

Alan, what kind of talismanic value that normally associated to this kind of kinatah? Was it ever called kinatah, anyway?

I doubt that it was created to deter status, as nobody will walk around flaunt the pesi or wearing a keris without the ukiran / hilt...unless if there are secret society / occult meeting which needs you to reveal certain part of the keris.

Hmm, I might be seeing much cult movies lately

Gustav · 1st November 2009, 10:18 AM

Not status, a talismanic value. Nobody bears his talisman visible for all people.

A. G. Maisey · 1st November 2009, 12:06 PM

I'd like to stay out of this discussion.

I'm interested in seeing what opinions might arise.

Gustav · 1st November 2009, 12:31 PM

We most probably are not able to have a discussion about this. The meaning of this pesi must be clear for Alan and some members who post very seldom.

And of course for Haryo Haryoguritno. I think, the information in his book about this kind of pesi is well dosed for a broad public, for most of us.

Sajen · 1st November 2009, 02:40 PM

Thank you Moshah and Alan for the correct translation, the last part of the sentence I don't understand really.
Agree with Gustav that a talisman don't need to shown open for all people. And it's no surprise that the pesi carry a talisman since it is a very important part of a keris.

Moshah · 1st November 2009, 06:14 PM

In my opinion, if it was really for talismanic value, and to be kept unseen, I guess the owner can't simply send his keris to people for cleaning and warangan purposes then.

It could be a symbol of X, instead of +. A reference to PB X, perhaps?

1st November 2009, 08:17 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,049	Moshah's translation is near enough, but in English, we would write the idea conveyed like this:- Pesi tapak jalak, on the surface of the tip there are two crossed lines, like a plus (+) sign, which are filled with gold or silver; by a part of the community this is considered to have a certain talismanic value.

1st November 2009, 08:41 AM	#2
Moshah Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 171	That would be the right one. Alan, what kind of talismanic value that normally associated to this kind of kinatah? Was it ever called kinatah, anyway? I doubt that it was created to deter status, as nobody will walk around flaunt the pesi or wearing a keris without the ukiran / hilt...unless if there are secret society / occult meeting which needs you to reveal certain part of the keris. Hmm, I might be seeing much cult movies lately

1st November 2009, 10:18 AM	#3
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,295	Not status, a talismanic value. Nobody bears his talisman visible for all people.

1st November 2009, 12:06 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,049	I'd like to stay out of this discussion. I'm interested in seeing what opinions might arise.

1st November 2009, 12:31 PM	#5
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,295	We most probably are not able to have a discussion about this. The meaning of this pesi must be clear for Alan and some members who post very seldom. And of course for Haryo Haryoguritno. I think, the information in his book about this kind of pesi is well dosed for a broad public, for most of us.

1st November 2009, 02:40 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,278	Thank you Moshah and Alan for the correct translation, the last part of the sentence I don't understand really. Agree with Gustav that a talisman don't need to shown open for all people. And it's no surprise that the pesi carry a talisman since it is a very important part of a keris.

1st November 2009, 06:14 PM	#7
Moshah Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 171	In my opinion, if it was really for talismanic value, and to be kept unseen, I guess the owner can't simply send his keris to people for cleaning and warangan purposes then. It could be a symbol of X, instead of +. A reference to PB X, perhaps?