Very nice Khanjarli For Comment

Lew · 26th October 2009, 04:15 AM

This was a pure impulse buy and it was not cheap but I think it's a good one?
I'm pretty sure the blade will turn out to be wootz. Jens I have a question my dagger is missing the knuckle guard do you think it ever had one?

Warren McQ · 26th October 2009, 06:05 AM

That's a beautiful piece Lew, It sure looks like you got your money's worth.
I've lusted over these knives every time I see a nice one.

Great find,

Warren in Arizona

Jens Nordlunde · 26th October 2009, 03:29 PM

Hi Lew,

Nice old khanjarli and even with the ears intact, congratulations

.

Most have a hand guard, but you can also see them without one, however, from the pictures you show I can’t see if yours originally had one. My guess is that it didn’t, but you are the only one who can tell us if it did. Are there any traces that it is a bit rough where the hand guard would have been, or any filing marks? It will be interesting to hear if the blade is wootz, as I can’t recall to have seen a khanjarli blade with wootz.

Khanjarli’s can look differently, but it is in the smaller things, in general they are easy to spot. Attached is mine khanjarli.

Jens

Ferguson · 26th October 2009, 08:04 PM

Stunning. Great find!
Steve

Tatyana Dianova · 26th October 2009, 10:43 PM

Lew and Jens, you both have simply magnificent examples! Thank you for sharing!
And I am pretty sure that both blades are Wootz. Even mine pretty simle Khanjarli has a Wootz blade.

Jens Nordlunde · 26th October 2009, 11:54 PM

Tatyana, your 'pretty simle Khanjarli' is very nice - you love it, and so do I.
Now, the difficult thing here it to date these Khanjarlies. If you use two or three centuries, it will be possible - but to my opinion it is not possible at the moment to come any closer. You can say the wear, but it is also known that weapons of great age have not been used, and for this reason look as if they were almost new. Another riddle to solve.

CharlesS · 27th October 2009, 02:35 AM

Gorgeous example Lew. With an all ivory guard, I'm betting there was no knuckle guard.

Lew · 27th October 2009, 12:23 PM

Thank you all for your comments. When the dagger arrives I will check to see if it ever had a knuckle guard.

Lew

Gavin Nugent · 27th October 2009, 02:48 PM

Congrats Lew.

I love those clean crisp lines in the blade. I look forward to viewing any pattern steel you may find. Even if none it was an impulse well followed in my eyes.

Gav

Kurt · 27th October 2009, 07:59 PM

Another 2 khanjarli without knuckle guard.
Kurt

Lew · 28th October 2009, 03:53 AM

Thanks Kurt. Nice daggers.

Lew · 6th November 2009, 02:34 AM

The khanjarli arrived today and now I can breath again it was sent parcel post. The blade is 9 inches in length and has a very nice wootz pattern

the ivory is in perfect shape no chips. Jens, Charles there is no sign this dagger ever had a knuckle guard I am a very happy camper

.

Lew

Ferguson · 6th November 2009, 10:36 AM

That's great Lew. Now we need more pics!

Steve

Lew · 7th November 2009, 05:15 AM

Here is a close up but it is not that good will try again tomorrow in day light. This is Indian wootz which is low contrast and real hard to photograph.

Lew · 10th November 2009, 05:32 AM

Ok here is a thought the blades on these khanjarli seem to resemble a bull's horns to me so could there be link here?

Lew · 11th November 2009, 03:04 AM

Guys no thoughts on this question? Since cows/bulls are sacred in India it would make some sense to me that this could be a representation of their horns.

Lew

Gavin Nugent · 11th November 2009, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Guys no thoughts on this question? Since cows/bulls are sacred in India it would make some sense to me that this could be a representation of their horns.

Lew

Interesting thought Lew, the bull pictured, is it a native breed to India?

Gav

Lew · 11th November 2009, 01:33 PM

Not sure Gav when I googled Indian bull this pic showed up but I think the pic was taken here in the states. Here are a few more pics the top one is Shiva riding a top of one also notice the center photo of the side view of the bulls head it's ear has a similar shape to the ear of the dagger hilt. Here is some more research tidbits.

Shiva's guardian is Nandi (the white bull), whose statue can often be seen watching over the main shrine. The bull is said to embody sexual energy, fertility. Riding on its back, Shiva is in control of these impulses.

He often holds a trident, which represents the Hindu trinity of Brahma, Shiva and Vishnu. It is also said to represent the threefold qualities of nature: creation, preservation and destruction, although preservation is usually attributed to Vishnu.

roshan · 24th November 2009, 02:21 AM

Most of the cows pictured above are native Indian breeds (I'm not sure about the one in Louieblades' post, it doesn't have the hump typical of Zebu cattle). There are basically two subspecies of cattle, the taurine (Bos primigenius taurus) originating from Europe and the zebu (Bos primigenius indicus) originating in India.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebu

Lew · 24th November 2009, 04:40 AM

Roshan

The first bull is not Indian it was the shape of the horns I was trying to bring across. The others are all Brama bulls.

Gavin Nugent · 25th November 2009, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Guys no thoughts on this question? Since cows/bulls are sacred in India it would make some sense to me that this could be a representation of their horns.

Lew

Nice image grouping there Lew, I'd say this makes perfect sense looking at the extra images of native bulls.
Whilst my knowledge on these knives are limited I wonder if anyone can point out any direct historical association with these knives and worship of the bulls?
I'll have a look through my Asiatic mythos references to see what I can find, perhaps mention of ceremony or something along those lines.

Gav

KuKulzA28 · 25th November 2009, 07:47 AM

I have heard bichwa were originally made from horns. Their blade-shape is the same as the khanjarli's. Any connection?

Jens Nordlunde · 17th April 2019, 05:42 PM

Now and again it pays to have a look back in time, as I did to day.
The khanjarli with the straight blade shown by Kurt in post 10 is unique.
Not so long ago I got one as well. South Indian 17th century - but notice the two birds heads on the pommel, thiss I have never seen before.

Jens Nordlunde · 22nd July 2019, 05:11 PM

The khanjarli shown in post 23 has a strange redish colour. I have been told by Oliver Pinchot that the former owner Rochard R. Wagner used to wrap his weapons in some armoury plastic meant for preservation, and this gave the ivory this strange colouring.

26th October 2009, 04:15 AM	#1
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Very nice Khanjarli For Comment This was a pure impulse buy and it was not cheap but I think it's a good one? I'm pretty sure the blade will turn out to be wootz. Jens I have a question my dagger is missing the knuckle guard do you think it ever had one? Attached Images Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 26th October 2009 at 05:08 AM.

26th October 2009, 03:29 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Lew, Nice old khanjarli and even with the ears intact, congratulations. Most have a hand guard, but you can also see them without one, however, from the pictures you show I can’t see if yours originally had one. My guess is that it didn’t, but you are the only one who can tell us if it did. Are there any traces that it is a bit rough where the hand guard would have been, or any filing marks? It will be interesting to hear if the blade is wootz, as I can’t recall to have seen a khanjarli blade with wootz. Khanjarli’s can look differently, but it is in the smaller things, in general they are easy to spot. Attached is mine khanjarli. Jens Attached Images

26th October 2009, 10:43 PM	#5
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 743	Lew and Jens, you both have simply magnificent examples! Thank you for sharing! And I am pretty sure that both blades are Wootz. Even mine pretty simle Khanjarli has a Wootz blade. Attached Images

27th October 2009, 02:48 PM	#9
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Congrats Lew Congrats Lew. I love those clean crisp lines in the blade. I look forward to viewing any pattern steel you may find. Even if none it was an impulse well followed in my eyes. Gav

27th October 2009, 07:59 PM	#10
Kurt Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 197	2 khanjarli Another 2 khanjarli without knuckle guard. Kurt Attached Images

26th October 2009, 06:05 AM	#2
Warren McQ Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 40	That's a beautiful piece Lew, It sure looks like you got your money's worth. I've lusted over these knives every time I see a nice one. Great find, Warren in Arizona

26th October 2009, 08:04 PM	#4
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Stunning. Great find! Steve

26th October 2009, 11:54 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Tatyana, your 'pretty simle Khanjarli' is very nice - you love it, and so do I. Now, the difficult thing here it to date these Khanjarlies. If you use two or three centuries, it will be possible - but to my opinion it is not possible at the moment to come any closer. You can say the wear, but it is also known that weapons of great age have not been used, and for this reason look as if they were almost new. Another riddle to solve.

27th October 2009, 02:35 AM	#7
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	Gorgeous example Lew. With an all ivory guard, I'm betting there was no knuckle guard.

27th October 2009, 12:23 PM	#8
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Thank you all for your comments. When the dagger arrives I will check to see if it ever had a knuckle guard. Lew

28th October 2009, 03:53 AM	#11
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Thanks Kurt. Nice daggers.

6th November 2009, 02:34 AM	#12
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	The khanjarli arrived today and now I can breath again it was sent parcel post. The blade is 9 inches in length and has a very nice wootz pattern the ivory is in perfect shape no chips. Jens, Charles there is no sign this dagger ever had a knuckle guard I am a very happy camper . Lew

6th November 2009, 10:36 AM	#13
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	That's great Lew. Now we need more pics! Steve

7th November 2009, 05:15 AM	#14
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Here is a close up but it is not that good will try again tomorrow in day light. This is Indian wootz which is low contrast and real hard to photograph. Attached Images Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 7th November 2009 at 02:48 PM.

10th November 2009, 05:32 AM	#15
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Ok here is a thought the blades on these khanjarli seem to resemble a bull's horns to me so could there be link here? Attached Images

11th November 2009, 03:04 AM	#16
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Guys no thoughts on this question? Since cows/bulls are sacred in India it would make some sense to me that this could be a representation of their horns. Lew

11th November 2009, 01:33 PM	#18
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Not sure Gav when I googled Indian bull this pic showed up but I think the pic was taken here in the states. Here are a few more pics the top one is Shiva riding a top of one also notice the center photo of the side view of the bulls head it's ear has a similar shape to the ear of the dagger hilt. Here is some more research tidbits. Shiva's guardian is Nandi (the white bull), whose statue can often be seen watching over the main shrine. The bull is said to embody sexual energy, fertility. Riding on its back, Shiva is in control of these impulses. He often holds a trident, which represents the Hindu trinity of Brahma, Shiva and Vishnu. It is also said to represent the threefold qualities of nature: creation, preservation and destruction, although preservation is usually attributed to Vishnu. Attached Images Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 11th November 2009 at 02:30 PM.

24th November 2009, 02:21 AM	#19
roshan Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 20	Most of the cows pictured above are native Indian breeds (I'm not sure about the one in Louieblades' post, it doesn't have the hump typical of Zebu cattle). There are basically two subspecies of cattle, the taurine (Bos primigenius taurus) originating from Europe and the zebu (Bos primigenius indicus) originating in India..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebu

24th November 2009, 04:40 AM	#20
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Roshan The first bull is not Indian it was the shape of the horns I was trying to bring across. The others are all Brama bulls.

25th November 2009, 07:47 AM	#22
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	I have heard bichwa were originally made from horns. Their blade-shape is the same as the khanjarli's. Any connection?

17th April 2019, 05:42 PM	#23
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Now and again it pays to have a look back in time, as I did to day. The khanjarli with the straight blade shown by Kurt in post 10 is unique. Not so long ago I got one as well. South Indian 17th century - but notice the two birds heads on the pommel, thiss I have never seen before. Attached Images

22nd July 2019, 05:11 PM	#24
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	The khanjarli shown in post 23 has a strange redish colour. I have been told by Oliver Pinchot that the former owner Rochard R. Wagner used to wrap his weapons in some armoury plastic meant for preservation, and this gave the ivory this strange colouring.