Mystery Dagger

fearn · 16th May 2005, 01:07 AM

Neat!

I'm...clueless on this one. One suggestion would be to take a piece of thinnish paper and some pencil or charcoal, and try to see if you can get a rubbing of the engraving off the blade. An image of that (or a clear picture of the engraving) might help our german speakers get some information off of it.

Fearn

nechesh · 16th May 2005, 01:44 AM

Neat indeed! My guess is that this is a one-of-a-kind item made by a 19thC artisan. Since a translation will go a long way in helping to solve the mysteries of this blade i would highly recommend that you contact the owner and get the inscription to pass along to the forum. Compared to some languages we get on blades German should not be all that hard to get translated. And if your friend ever has any interest in getting rid of this blade please let me know. It's right up my macabre alley

Lew · 16th May 2005, 02:09 AM

Hi Guys

What you have hear is a French Cult dagger.

Lew

nechesh · 16th May 2005, 03:08 AM

OK Lew, what's a French cult dagger?

If you mean that it it belonged to a member of a magickal lodge, that would be my guess too. The skull and cross bones is a symbol used by Masonic and other Lodge groups.
What makes you say French if the inscription is in German? There were many lodges working in Germany during the 19th century.

Ian · 16th May 2005, 04:29 AM

Lew is referring to the daggers produced for satanic cults that arose in France and Western Europe in the late 18th and early 19th C. in the aftermath of the French Revolution and the Napoleonic Wars. These knives are 10-15 inches in overall length, and typically have curved or straight double-edged blades with cast bronze hilts depicting skeletons, satyrs, snakes, goats, owls, or other satanic symbols. The sheath is usually metal.

This one, from 1884 (?), is later than most and might be a late 19th C. reproduction.

nechesh · 16th May 2005, 11:49 AM

I'm sorry Ian, but i am having trouble with your depiction of skeletons, satyrs, snakes, goats and owls as being satanic symbols. These are all symbols which have been used in magickal lodges and Wicca, but i can assure you there is nothing particularly satanic about them. As i mentioned, the skull and cross bones is a very well established masonic symbol. Some folks probably consider that a satanic organization, but personally i find that a bit of a stretch.

Ian · 16th May 2005, 12:41 PM

Nechesh:

My description was based on information contained in Levine, p. 477,* where he also shows a similar example, as well as previous discussion in this Forum of similar knives. Whether this knife is a satanic dagger, or from another cult or organization, is hard to say. I noted that the date, 1884, seemed later than usual for a dagger associated with a French satanic cult, as referred to by Lew, which may or may not indicate another source.

As a former Freemason, I am not familiar with Freemasonry using depictions of "Death," skeletons, or animal imagery on knives in their rituals. The square and compass, the letter "G," circles and triangles are much more common symbols in that society.

Based on the style and the depiction of the hilt, plus the general high quality of this knife, I'm inclined to agree with Lew until we can find a better source and reference.

Ian.

* Bernard Levine. Levine's Guide to Knives and Their Values. Fifth edition. Krause Publications, Iola, WI. 2001.

16th May 2005, 04:29 AM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	Satanic dagger Lew is referring to the daggers produced for satanic cults that arose in France and Western Europe in the late 18th and early 19th C. in the aftermath of the French Revolution and the Napoleonic Wars. These knives are 10-15 inches in overall length, and typically have curved or straight double-edged blades with cast bronze hilts depicting skeletons, satyrs, snakes, goats, owls, or other satanic symbols. The sheath is usually metal. This one, from 1884 (?), is later than most and might be a late 19th C. reproduction. Last edited by Ian; 17th May 2005 at 12:19 PM.

16th May 2005, 01:07 AM	#1
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Neat! I'm...clueless on this one. One suggestion would be to take a piece of thinnish paper and some pencil or charcoal, and try to see if you can get a rubbing of the engraving off the blade. An image of that (or a clear picture of the engraving) might help our german speakers get some information off of it. Fearn

16th May 2005, 01:44 AM	#2
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Neat indeed! My guess is that this is a one-of-a-kind item made by a 19thC artisan. Since a translation will go a long way in helping to solve the mysteries of this blade i would highly recommend that you contact the owner and get the inscription to pass along to the forum. Compared to some languages we get on blades German should not be all that hard to get translated. And if your friend ever has any interest in getting rid of this blade please let me know. It's right up my macabre alley

16th May 2005, 02:09 AM	#3
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Hi Guys What you have hear is a French Cult dagger. Lew

16th May 2005, 03:08 AM	#4
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	OK Lew, what's a French cult dagger? If you mean that it it belonged to a member of a magickal lodge, that would be my guess too. The skull and cross bones is a symbol used by Masonic and other Lodge groups. What makes you say French if the inscription is in German? There were many lodges working in Germany during the 19th century.

16th May 2005, 11:49 AM	#6
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	I'm sorry Ian, but i am having trouble with your depiction of skeletons, satyrs, snakes, goats and owls as being satanic symbols. These are all symbols which have been used in magickal lodges and Wicca, but i can assure you there is nothing particularly satanic about them. As i mentioned, the skull and cross bones is a very well established masonic symbol. Some folks probably consider that a satanic organization, but personally i find that a bit of a stretch.

16th May 2005, 12:41 PM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	Nechesh: My description was based on information contained in Levine, p. 477,* where he also shows a similar example, as well as previous discussion in this Forum of similar knives. Whether this knife is a satanic dagger, or from another cult or organization, is hard to say. I noted that the date, 1884, seemed later than usual for a dagger associated with a French satanic cult, as referred to by Lew, which may or may not indicate another source. As a former Freemason, I am not familiar with Freemasonry using depictions of "Death," skeletons, or animal imagery on knives in their rituals. The square and compass, the letter "G," circles and triangles are much more common symbols in that society. Based on the style and the depiction of the hilt, plus the general high quality of this knife, I'm inclined to agree with Lew until we can find a better source and reference. Ian. * Bernard Levine. Levine's Guide to Knives and Their Values. Fifth edition. Krause Publications, Iola, WI. 2001.