Indonesian Riddle - Who knows what this is?

erikscollectables · 3rd October 2009, 06:12 PM

Here some more photo's.
Top with inscriptions top of the point with very nice workmanship.
Handle and blade going into the handle.

Based on the info sofar I think the handle is original to the blade (mainly based on the other example shown and the info from Arjan (Mandaukudi))

Blade looks like it has seen some use but not intensely.

The blade has several islamic texts and extensive wafak/wafq that is talismanic in meaning. The reason for the hindu decorations in combination with the islamic parts is still unclear to me. (Wafq was unkown to me so Asomotif thanks for the hint to the earlier discussion here with VVV)

Thanks for all the reactions so far, Erik

Dom · 5th October 2009, 12:52 AM

Hi Gentlemen
some answers before attemp of translation (on way)

1) the mentions are in arabic, and shows an unity of engraver
2) no date, no name

only religious proclamations
2) the "magic squares" aren't strange, even sometimes associated with symbols, it's covers e.i.
- a shirt to protect the warrior during a battle, (pic joined)
- magical bowls called also healthy, or medical bowls (pics upon request)
- back-pages of the Holy Quran (old hand-writting) (pics upon request), etc..
those 2 last are from my personal collections

à +

Dom

erikscollectables · 5th October 2009, 07:13 PM

Hi Dom,

Thanks so far for the input and I look forward to your translation!

Regards, Erik

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom

Hi Gentlemen
some answers before attemp of translation (on way)

1) the mentions are in arabic, and shows an unity of engraver
2) no date, no name

only religious proclamations
2) the "magic squares" aren't strange, even sometimes associated with symbols, it's covers e.i.
- a shirt to protect the warrior during a battle, (pic joined)
- magical bowls called also healthy, or medical bowls (pics upon request)
- back-pages of the Holy Quran (old hand-writting) (pics upon request), etc..
those 2 last are from my personal collections

à +

Dom

Dom · 9th October 2009, 12:23 AM

Hi Erik
sorry, I have been long to delivre ....

has many pic's to don't mix every thing, one email per pic and translation

the easiest one ...

either "illegible" or magic squares, and designs

à +

Dom

Dom · 9th October 2009, 12:58 AM

the longest ...

1st sentence by the top
-BISMILEH ARRAHMAN ARRAHIM, YA ALLAH LA ILLAH AL ALLAH AL AZIM Y ALLAH either in English IN THE NAME OF GOD, MOST GRACIOUS, MOST MERCIFUL
2nd sentence (at right)
-ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH either in English GOD GOD GOD
3rd sentence
-ALLAH AL HARADAL SAMAD YA ALLAH either in English GOD THE ONE, THE ETERNALLY BESOUGHT OF ALL 2 first verses of surat (112) Al Ikhlas
4th sentence
-LELLAH ASSAMAWAT WA AL HARD either in English FOR GOD THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH
5th sentence
-YA ZA ALGALAL WA AL EKHAME either in English HE HAS MAJESTY, AND HE IS THE MOST GENEROUS

à +

Dom

Dom · 9th October 2009, 01:07 AM

a brief

1st lign
- BIMELLAH either in English IN THE NAME OF GOD
2nd lign
- YA ALLAH AL MAHMOUD FI KOL AF'ALEH either in English IN ALL HE IS DOING HE IS
LAUDABLE

à +
Dom

Dom · 9th October 2009, 01:30 AM

so sorry for confusion ... (to Stephen, and his kaskara)
could occur when many translations ...

he 1st lign is part (first sentence) of the verse 58 surate "Al Furqan"
" .... WA TAKALTO ALA EL LAZI LAYAMOUT CHA'HET AL WOUGOUD" either in English; "AND TRUST THOU IN THE LIVEING ONE WHO DIETH NO".

the 2nd sentence; certainly extracted from the Holy quran, but I didn't find exactly the surate
" WA OMAT AL APTSAR WA TAWAKALTO ALA ALLAH EL WAHED QL KA'HARE" either in English; "WITNESS FOR OUR TIME BEING, THEIR VIEW IS BLIND, GOD IS UNIQUE AND ALWAYS VICTORIOUS".

à +

Dom

3rd October 2009, 06:12 PM	#1
erikscollectables Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 318	more photo's Here some more photo's. Top with inscriptions top of the point with very nice workmanship. Handle and blade going into the handle. Based on the info sofar I think the handle is original to the blade (mainly based on the other example shown and the info from Arjan (Mandaukudi)) Blade looks like it has seen some use but not intensely. The blade has several islamic texts and extensive wafak/wafq that is talismanic in meaning. The reason for the hindu decorations in combination with the islamic parts is still unclear to me. (Wafq was unkown to me so Asomotif thanks for the hint to the earlier discussion here with VVV) Thanks for all the reactions so far, Erik Attached Images

5th October 2009, 12:52 AM	#2
Dom Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG) Posts: 1,142	Hi Gentlemen some answers before attemp of translation (on way) 1) the mentions are in arabic, and shows an unity of engraver 2) no date, no name only religious proclamations 2) the "magic squares" aren't strange, even sometimes associated with symbols, it's covers e.i. - a shirt to protect the warrior during a battle, (pic joined) - magical bowls called also healthy, or medical bowls (pics upon request) - back-pages of the Holy Quran (old hand-writting) (pics upon request), etc.. those 2 last are from my personal collections à + Dom Attached Images

9th October 2009, 12:23 AM	#4
Dom Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG) Posts: 1,142	Hi Erik sorry, I have been long to delivre .... has many pic's to don't mix every thing, one email per pic and translation the easiest one ... either "illegible" or magic squares, and designs à + Dom Attached Images

9th October 2009, 12:58 AM	#5
Dom Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG) Posts: 1,142	the longest ... 1st sentence by the top -BISMILEH ARRAHMAN ARRAHIM, YA ALLAH LA ILLAH AL ALLAH AL AZIM Y ALLAH either in English IN THE NAME OF GOD, MOST GRACIOUS, MOST MERCIFUL 2nd sentence (at right) -ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH either in English GOD GOD GOD 3rd sentence -ALLAH AL HARADAL SAMAD YA ALLAH either in English GOD THE ONE, THE ETERNALLY BESOUGHT OF ALL 2 first verses of surat (112) Al Ikhlas 4th sentence -LELLAH ASSAMAWAT WA AL HARD either in English FOR GOD THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH 5th sentence -YA ZA ALGALAL WA AL EKHAME either in English HE HAS MAJESTY, AND HE IS THE MOST GENEROUS à + Dom Attached Images

9th October 2009, 01:07 AM	#6
Dom Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG) Posts: 1,142	a brief 1st lign - BIMELLAH either in English IN THE NAME OF GOD 2nd lign - YA ALLAH AL MAHMOUD FI KOL AF'ALEH either in English IN ALL HE IS DOING HE IS LAUDABLE à + Dom Attached Images

9th October 2009, 01:30 AM	#7
Dom Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG) Posts: 1,142	so sorry for confusion ... (to Stephen, and his kaskara) could occur when many translations ... he 1st lign is part (first sentence) of the verse 58 surate "Al Furqan" " .... WA TAKALTO ALA EL LAZI LAYAMOUT CHA'HET AL WOUGOUD" either in English; "AND TRUST THOU IN THE LIVEING ONE WHO DIETH NO". the 2nd sentence; certainly extracted from the Holy quran, but I didn't find exactly the surate " WA OMAT AL APTSAR WA TAWAKALTO ALA ALLAH EL WAHED QL KA'HARE" either in English; "WITNESS FOR OUR TIME BEING, THEIR VIEW IS BLIND, GOD IS UNIQUE AND ALWAYS VICTORIOUS". à + Dom Attached Images Last edited by Dom; 9th October 2009 at 02:46 AM.