A question about boarding pikes

M ELEY · 1st October 2009, 09:59 AM

So no one thinks I'm crazy about the "X" decorations-

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=spanish

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=spanish

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=spanish

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=spanish

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=spanish

The one above worries me. African X designs on weapons? Could my piece be an African spear (not my area, but I've never seen one with diamond blade or wormy ash shaft, so???)

Here's a similar pattern on cutlass-
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...zilian+cutlass

kronckew · 1st October 2009, 04:43 PM

Just for interest, HMS Warrior, a rebuilt 1860's warship, is moored in Portsmouth near HMS Victory. when i saw the initial comment on the british boarding pike, i remembered that the Warrior had racks of them, some around the base of the masts.

i seem to recall they were about 6 ft. long, possibly 7, and had a triangular pike point with langets, and a tail piece.

the ship also had racks and racks of original colt navy revolvers, rifled muskets, and the std. steel hilted spectacle guard cutlasses. they have a website that will take you on a virtual tour, but the weapons are not shown, darn it.

anyhow, anyone finding themselves in the area, it's well worth seeing both the Victory and the Warrior, as well as the rest of the site. the wreck of the Mary Rose, with it's tudor weaponry is also there - try pulling a 150lb longbow there!

M ELEY · 1st October 2009, 08:56 PM

I'd love to see that ship, if I ever get a trip over to the homeland (grandfather was from Redruth, Cornwall). The U.S.S. Constitution likewise had boarding pikes stacked around the main mast, so I think this was a common practice. On most ships of the line, the pikes would have been heavy wooden affairs with langets/side straps, but many of the Rev War pikes and certainly the ones made for merchant defence and privateers didn't. Likewise, the Brit pikes for the RN had butt plates, but MOST other navies (American, French, Dutch, etc) didn't , as this metal cap would mar the deck over time. Anyway, still a mystery piece. I think Gonzalo is right, though, to not strictly label this piece as Span colonial-after seeing all of those navaja from Spain with similar decorations. Likewise, many colonial North American pieces had primitive line etching/markings...

M ELEY · 2nd October 2009, 02:49 AM

I was looking through Neumann's today and found what I was hoping to find; an example with similar designs. It's a colonial American halberd with X's on it like mine. It was found at Washington's camp in New York. Likewise, there were several examples of pikes, all American, that didn't have butt caps and whose length and diameter resembled this one's. I'm going to assume it is an American pike or trench spear until someone disproves it, anyway.

M ELEY · 23rd January 2021, 06:36 AM

I'm dusting off this old thread because I have better pics of this item and I just discovered the head actually screws off and is tanged, while the ferrule holds it in place! Very interesting construction! I haven't seen anything like this before, which made me a little nervous. Is this tanged head that resembles a tombak really an Indonesian piece? I don't think so, as the haft is wormy ash (a Euro and American favorite wood for spears/pikes from time immortal), nor does it have any of the typical designs/pamor, etc. In all other ways, it fits the bill of a short boarding pike. The diamond-shaped blade would place it Amer Rev War period up to 1800 perhaps. I had also thought of trench spears, which were popular in America at this time for fort defense, but the ferrule, decorative design around the base and quality of the head seems to steer away from the typically much more primitive spears of the era. I'm sticking to my guns that this is a boarding pike, possibly private purchase, but just as likely made during the Revolution, when swords, halberds and pikes were locally constructed by blacksmiths and thus simple in nature-

David R · 23rd January 2021, 02:12 PM

Looking at the construction, I think you have an 18th-early 19th century infantry officers or sergeants half pike.More of a rank symbol than a weapon, though known to have been used as such.

M ELEY · 24th January 2021, 01:46 AM

Thank you, David, for coming in on this one. Staff weapons are often non-descript and hard to pin-point. I had considered that possibility (thus, my 'trench spear' mention), but wasn't sure of pike lengths during this era. I'm still happy it is at least of the period and well constructed.

23rd January 2021, 06:36 AM	#5
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	A new discovery! I'm dusting off this old thread because I have better pics of this item and I just discovered the head actually screws off and is tanged, while the ferrule holds it in place! Very interesting construction! I haven't seen anything like this before, which made me a little nervous. Is this tanged head that resembles a tombak really an Indonesian piece? I don't think so, as the haft is wormy ash (a Euro and American favorite wood for spears/pikes from time immortal), nor does it have any of the typical designs/pamor, etc. In all other ways, it fits the bill of a short boarding pike. The diamond-shaped blade would place it Amer Rev War period up to 1800 perhaps. I had also thought of trench spears, which were popular in America at this time for fort defense, but the ferrule, decorative design around the base and quality of the head seems to steer away from the typically much more primitive spears of the era. I'm sticking to my guns that this is a boarding pike, possibly private purchase, but just as likely made during the Revolution, when swords, halberds and pikes were locally constructed by blacksmiths and thus simple in nature- Attached Images

1st October 2009, 09:59 AM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	So no one thinks I'm crazy about the "X" decorations- http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=spanish http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=spanish http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=spanish http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=spanish http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=spanish The one above worries me. African X designs on weapons? Could my piece be an African spear (not my area, but I've never seen one with diamond blade or wormy ash shaft, so???) Here's a similar pattern on cutlass- http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...zilian+cutlass

1st October 2009, 04:43 PM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	Just for interest, HMS Warrior, a rebuilt 1860's warship, is moored in Portsmouth near HMS Victory. when i saw the initial comment on the british boarding pike, i remembered that the Warrior had racks of them, some around the base of the masts. i seem to recall they were about 6 ft. long, possibly 7, and had a triangular pike point with langets, and a tail piece. the ship also had racks and racks of original colt navy revolvers, rifled muskets, and the std. steel hilted spectacle guard cutlasses. they have a website that will take you on a virtual tour, but the weapons are not shown, darn it. anyhow, anyone finding themselves in the area, it's well worth seeing both the Victory and the Warrior, as well as the rest of the site. the wreck of the Mary Rose, with it's tudor weaponry is also there - try pulling a 150lb longbow there!

1st October 2009, 08:56 PM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	I'd love to see that ship, if I ever get a trip over to the homeland (grandfather was from Redruth, Cornwall). The U.S.S. Constitution likewise had boarding pikes stacked around the main mast, so I think this was a common practice. On most ships of the line, the pikes would have been heavy wooden affairs with langets/side straps, but many of the Rev War pikes and certainly the ones made for merchant defence and privateers didn't. Likewise, the Brit pikes for the RN had butt plates, but MOST other navies (American, French, Dutch, etc) didn't , as this metal cap would mar the deck over time. Anyway, still a mystery piece. I think Gonzalo is right, though, to not strictly label this piece as Span colonial-after seeing all of those navaja from Spain with similar decorations. Likewise, many colonial North American pieces had primitive line etching/markings...

2nd October 2009, 02:49 AM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	I was looking through Neumann's today and found what I was hoping to find; an example with similar designs. It's a colonial American halberd with X's on it like mine. It was found at Washington's camp in New York. Likewise, there were several examples of pikes, all American, that didn't have butt caps and whose length and diameter resembled this one's. I'm going to assume it is an American pike or trench spear until someone disproves it, anyway.

23rd January 2021, 02:12 PM	#6
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,116	Looking at the construction, I think you have an 18th-early 19th century infantry officers or sergeants half pike.More of a rank symbol than a weapon, though known to have been used as such.

24th January 2021, 01:46 AM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Thank you, David, for coming in on this one. Staff weapons are often non-descript and hard to pin-point. I had considered that possibility (thus, my 'trench spear' mention), but wasn't sure of pike lengths during this era. I'm still happy it is at least of the period and well constructed.