Indian Arab Influenced Jambiya and Lots of Questions

Jens Nordlunde · 19th September 2009, 06:17 PM

Teodor,
Yes, Kutch would, to my opinion, be a very qualified guess

. But the mix of the two different metals, like on your dagger is still a bit strange.
Jens

Atlantia · 19th September 2009, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Teodor,
Yes, Kutch would, to my opinion, be a very qualified guess

. But the mix of the two different metals, like on your dagger is still a bit strange.
Jens

Couple of thoughts there....

For casting the more 'brassy' bronze of the hilt and lion head would be tougher and hold sharper detail, while the alloy used in the mounts with a higher copper content would be easier to work/hammer.

Or, were the mounts all originally gilded?

TVV · 19th September 2009, 07:15 PM

Looking carefully at the copper fittings on the scabbard, it does seem that they were once gilded - there are still traces. However, I do not see any traces of gilding on the hilt or on the head at the end of the scabbard. Perhaps when the copper was gilded, it matched the color of the hilt well enough, so no gilding of the brass parts was deemed necessary.
Regards,
Teodor

Jens Nordlunde · 19th September 2009, 09:42 PM

Are you sure they were gilded and not silvered?

TVV · 20th September 2009, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Are you sure they were gilded and not silvered?

Yes - I only see traces of gilding, but no traces of silvering anywhere.

Jens Nordlunde · 20th September 2009, 10:21 AM

Teodor, have a look at the mounts on this scabbard, and notice especially the edges. These mounts have rests of silver, and the scabbard is from a bhuj.
I don't think there is much doubt that your hilt and the head on the scabbard have been cast, but it is a rare combination using bronze and copper.
Here is another bhuj scabbard.

TVV · 20th September 2009, 07:05 PM

Thank you Jens,
The mountings on the bhuj scabbard are very similar in style to those on my jambiya. However, while I can see the remnants of silvering on your example, the copper fittings on mine have definitely been gilded, not silvered. I am attaching some close-ups, which I hope illustrate this.
Why the artisan on mine chose to combine different materials in the hilt and scabbard I am not qure about, but Gene's explanation makes sense - perhaps copper was chosen as it was easier to pierce and rigidity was not required for those parts, which had the backing of the wooden scabbard.
Best regards,
Teodor

ALEX · 23rd September 2009, 11:42 PM

Here is a typical Bhuj silver-work example from the early to mid 19th Century - a non-weapon object/beaker. There are strong style similarities with Teodor's and Jens' scabbards.

I also appreciate Atlantia's references to non-arms objects in his effort to understand the relationships between workmanship of different regions. As evidenced by this thread - it is very helpful.

19th September 2009, 06:17 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Teodor, Yes, Kutch would, to my opinion, be a very qualified guess. But the mix of the two different metals, like on your dagger is still a bit strange. Jens

20th September 2009, 10:21 AM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Teodor, have a look at the mounts on this scabbard, and notice especially the edges. These mounts have rests of silver, and the scabbard is from a bhuj. I don't think there is much doubt that your hilt and the head on the scabbard have been cast, but it is a rare combination using bronze and copper. Here is another bhuj scabbard. Attached Images Last edited by Jens Nordlunde; 20th September 2009 at 03:48 PM.

20th September 2009, 07:05 PM	#7
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	Thank you Jens, The mountings on the bhuj scabbard are very similar in style to those on my jambiya. However, while I can see the remnants of silvering on your example, the copper fittings on mine have definitely been gilded, not silvered. I am attaching some close-ups, which I hope illustrate this. Why the artisan on mine chose to combine different materials in the hilt and scabbard I am not qure about, but Gene's explanation makes sense - perhaps copper was chosen as it was easier to pierce and rigidity was not required for those parts, which had the backing of the wooden scabbard. Best regards, Teodor Attached Images

23rd September 2009, 11:42 PM	#8
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Here is a typical Bhuj silver-work example from the early to mid 19th Century - a non-weapon object/beaker. There are strong style similarities with Teodor's and Jens' scabbards. I also appreciate Atlantia's references to non-arms objects in his effort to understand the relationships between workmanship of different regions. As evidenced by this thread - it is very helpful. Attached Images

19th September 2009, 07:15 PM	#3
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	Looking carefully at the copper fittings on the scabbard, it does seem that they were once gilded - there are still traces. However, I do not see any traces of gilding on the hilt or on the head at the end of the scabbard. Perhaps when the copper was gilded, it matched the color of the hilt well enough, so no gilding of the brass parts was deemed necessary. Regards, Teodor

19th September 2009, 09:42 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Are you sure they were gilded and not silvered?