North African Rifle ID Help Please

BBJW · 8th September 2009, 04:57 AM

Very nice looking pieces. Almost impossible to date is right. Would love to have one to hang on the wall. I missed a similar piece going out the door of a gunshow last weekend. PM me if you have any interest in selling one. Are those considered "assault rifles" in the "Peoples Republik of Kalifornia" now?

Cheers
bbjw

Martin Lubojacky · 8th September 2009, 09:35 AM

Hello, I don´t cast dubt on Algeria and Kabylia, but you can also commonly find this type (shape) through all south mediterranian coast - up to Cyrenaika, for instance in Tunisia and western Libya.

Martin

Dom · 8th September 2009, 01:58 PM

Hi everybody

I will be more circumspect,
Berber ... yes, most probably, from Morocco, called Moukalah

but Kabyle ... I doubt

the 2 long rifles have their flintlock "à Miquelet"
the heel is more certainly made with camel bones than ivory.
they look as mid 19th century

the translation for the sentence it's not easy,
part is unreadable, but related with religion
- LELLAH ; either, FOR THE GOD
- ALLAH SHARA ; either, DIVINE LAW

à +

Dom

Clubs & Arrows · 9th September 2009, 04:28 PM

Thank you everyone for your information. These rifles are not what I normally collect, which is South Pacific, Philippine, and Southeast Asian artifacts & weaponry, but I couldn't resist picking up the pair. They have already found a spot of my wall. Again, thank you everyone for the input.
Dom, I took photos of the poor condition rifle's barrel, because it appears to have the same script chiseled into it. I used different lighting in case that will help. Any help on that would be appreciated. The same barrel has a tiny signature hidden in the design on the top of the barrel, although I couldn't get a really sharp close up.

Best regards,
Joe

Dom · 11th September 2009, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clubs & Arrows

Dom, I took photos of the poor condition rifle's barrel, because it appears to have the same script chiseled into it. I used different lighting in case that will help. Any help on that would be appreciated. The same barrel has a tiny signature hidden in the design on the top of the barrel, although I couldn't get a really sharp close up.

Hi Joe
here we are

at least, with the help of a second translator, we got the meaning of the sentence

the sentence on the barrel (same for both)
ALLAH SHARA IN JIHAD AL BEY'KA LA either; WE ARE READY FOR HOLY WAR (Jihad) IF GOD WILLING

what look like to be a stamp (?) from the blacksmith (?)
TA'HEB either; TA'HEB (no translation coze should be a name)

an other mark, no idea for what should be ??

(it's not a date

)
MAZ'B AL ?????

I leave it for more qualified than us ...

à +

Dom

ps: all transposition from arabic to european writing are respected the arabic direction of reading, I mean; from right to left

Clubs & Arrows · 14th September 2009, 03:31 AM

Dom,
Thank you very much for the translations. You have been a great help.

Best regards,
Joe

Dom · 17th September 2009, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom

Hi Joe
here we are

at least, with the help of a second translator, we got the meaning of the sentence

the sentence on the barrel (same for both)
ALLAH SHARA IN JIHAD AL BEY'KA LA either; WE ARE READY FOR HOLY WAR (Jihad) IF GOD WILLING

AFTER REVIEW AND CORRECTION
ALLAH INCH' JIHAD AL BEY'KA LA either; WE ARE READY FOR HOLY WAR (Jihad) IF GOD WILLING

à +

Dom

Clubs & Arrows · 24th September 2009, 05:22 PM

Dom,
Thanks again for the further help with the translation.

Best regards,
Joe

8th September 2009, 01:58 PM	#3
Dom Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG) Posts: 1,142	Hi everybody I will be more circumspect, Berber ... yes, most probably, from Morocco, called Moukalah but Kabyle ... I doubt the 2 long rifles have their flintlock "à Miquelet" the heel is more certainly made with camel bones than ivory. they look as mid 19th century the translation for the sentence it's not easy, part is unreadable, but related with religion - LELLAH ; either, FOR THE GOD - ALLAH SHARA ; either, DIVINE LAW à + Dom Attached Images

9th September 2009, 04:28 PM	#4
Clubs & Arrows Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: San Gabriel Foothills, Southern California Posts: 94	Thank you everyone for your information. These rifles are not what I normally collect, which is South Pacific, Philippine, and Southeast Asian artifacts & weaponry, but I couldn't resist picking up the pair. They have already found a spot of my wall. Again, thank you everyone for the input. Dom, I took photos of the poor condition rifle's barrel, because it appears to have the same script chiseled into it. I used different lighting in case that will help. Any help on that would be appreciated. The same barrel has a tiny signature hidden in the design on the top of the barrel, although I couldn't get a really sharp close up. Best regards, Joe Attached Images

8th September 2009, 04:57 AM	#1
BBJW Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Idaho, USA Posts: 228	Very nice looking pieces. Almost impossible to date is right. Would love to have one to hang on the wall. I missed a similar piece going out the door of a gunshow last weekend. PM me if you have any interest in selling one. Are those considered "assault rifles" in the "Peoples Republik of Kalifornia" now? Cheers bbjw

8th September 2009, 09:35 AM	#2
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 843	Hello, I don´t cast dubt on Algeria and Kabylia, but you can also commonly find this type (shape) through all south mediterranian coast - up to Cyrenaika, for instance in Tunisia and western Libya. Martin

14th September 2009, 03:31 AM	#6
Clubs & Arrows Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: San Gabriel Foothills, Southern California Posts: 94	Dom, Thank you very much for the translations. You have been a great help. Best regards, Joe

24th September 2009, 05:22 PM	#8
Clubs & Arrows Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: San Gabriel Foothills, Southern California Posts: 94	Dom, Thanks again for the further help with the translation. Best regards, Joe