Katzbalgers and Related Landsknecht Swords

Samik · 2nd September 2009, 03:26 PM

Dont mention it Michael

It seems however that the more complex hilted katzbalgers existed even earlier than I (we?

) thought.

A fabulous painting done by Vittore CARPACCIO called " Portrait of a Knight " dated 1510 , shows a young man clad in complete harness (- the helmet) and armed with what appears to be a fully developed katzbalger. Note the "figure-8 or S-shaped guard" as well as the distinctive pommel more typical for the mid/later part of 16th century.
Judging from the picture one could speculate that the weapon was also favoured among the men-at-arms/cream of the fighting nobility , not just the Knecht mercenaries.

Take a look:

Link to the source gallery : http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/htm.../03knight.html

Best,
Samuel

Matchlock · 2nd September 2009, 04:31 PM

Thank you so much indeed, Samuel,

That painting truly is a highly important source of illustration and I fully agree with your thesis that Katzbalgers were not only Knecht (mercenaries') weapons. If I am interpreting it right the pommel on Carpaccio's 1510 painting is gilt; we know of surviving Katzbalgers with gilt hilts and pommels, e.g. in the Vienna Leibrüstkammer.

Sure, we can imagine that some of the more successful mercenaries could afford to have the hilts of their swords gilt - or they just took one from a person they had killed. But the source you have come up with here is sensational in that it proves your surmise that the use of these swords was not limited to the lower people!

Thanks again for sharing it.

All the best,
Michael

Matchlock · 27th September 2009, 03:50 PM

A few early 16th century sources of illustration from Geiler v. Kaisersberg, The Passion of Christ, Strassburg, 1508 (the first two), and Titus Livius, Mainz, 1514.

M.

Matchlock · 27th September 2009, 04:14 PM

An illustration by Georg Pencz, Nuremberg, 1530's: The Suicide of Artemesia.

M.

Matchlock · 27th September 2009, 04:30 PM

By the same artist, dated 1535.

M.

Matchlock · 13th October 2009, 04:51 PM

A Grosses Messer, ca. 1500, and five swords of ca. 1530-40.

Matchlock · 13th October 2009, 04:59 PM

Enjoy!

2nd September 2009, 03:26 PM	#1
Samik Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Slovakia Posts: 48	early katzbalger Dont mention it Michael It seems however that the more complex hilted katzbalgers existed even earlier than I (we? ) thought. A fabulous painting done by Vittore CARPACCIO called " Portrait of a Knight " dated 1510 , shows a young man clad in complete harness (- the helmet) and armed with what appears to be a fully developed katzbalger. Note the "figure-8 or S-shaped guard" as well as the distinctive pommel more typical for the mid/later part of 16th century. Judging from the picture one could speculate that the weapon was also favoured among the men-at-arms/cream of the fighting nobility , not just the Knecht mercenaries. Take a look: Link to the source gallery : http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/htm.../03knight.html Best, Samuel

27th September 2009, 03:50 PM	#3
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	A few early 16th century sources of illustration from Geiler v. Kaisersberg, The Passion of Christ, Strassburg, 1508 (the first two), and Titus Livius, Mainz, 1514. M. Attached Images

27th September 2009, 04:14 PM	#4
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	An illustration by Georg Pencz, Nuremberg, 1530's: The Suicide of Artemesia. M. Attached Images

27th September 2009, 04:30 PM	#5
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	By the same artist, dated 1535. M. Attached Images

13th October 2009, 04:51 PM	#6
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Early 16th century Landsknecht swords in the Musée de l'Armée, Paris A Grosses Messer, ca. 1500, and five swords of ca. 1530-40. Attached Images

2nd September 2009, 04:31 PM	#2
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Thank you so much indeed, Samuel, That painting truly is a highly important source of illustration and I fully agree with your thesis that Katzbalgers were not only Knecht (mercenaries') weapons. If I am interpreting it right the pommel on Carpaccio's 1510 painting is gilt; we know of surviving Katzbalgers with gilt hilts and pommels, e.g. in the Vienna Leibrüstkammer. Sure, we can imagine that some of the more successful mercenaries could afford to have the hilts of their swords gilt - or they just took one from a person they had killed. But the source you have come up with here is sensational in that it proves your surmise that the use of these swords was not limited to the lower people! Thanks again for sharing it. All the best, Michael

13th October 2009, 04:59 PM	#7
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	16th century hand-and-a-half and two hand swords, Paris, Musée de l'Armée Enjoy! Attached Images