Sumbawa keris for enjoy and discussion

A. G. Maisey · 24th August 2009, 11:02 PM

The workmanship in the hilt and pendok both look like Javanese workmanship to me.I am not talking about style here, but about the way in which elements of the work have been completed.

If that wooden hilt is the hilt that the keris came with, I'd be inclined to refit it.

Gustav · 25th August 2009, 09:37 AM

Hello Sajen,

this wooden hilt is nice.

Another thing - it seems to me, that the selut of this "original" hilt and toli-toli are pretty similar in style, but they are really different to the pendhok.

I think, the possibility this warangka comes from Sumbawa is great. They love such horn on the top and that curled grain.

A question - are the opening in this horn slice and the mouth of warangka identical in size?

Sajen · 25th August 2009, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

Hello Sajen,

this wooden hilt is nice.

Another thing - it seems to me, that the selut of this "original" hilt and toli-toli are pretty similar in style, but they are really different to the pendhok.

I think, the possibility this warangka comes from Sumbawa is great. They love such horn on the top and that curled grain.

A question - are the opening in this horn slice and the mouth of warangka identical in size?

Hello Gustav,

yes, identical. The horn piece go deeper inside the wooden part as it's visible from outside. Later I'll post a picture from the keris with the wooden hilt.

sajen

Sajen · 25th August 2009, 06:01 PM

Here a picture of the keris with the hilt from wood.

Gustav · 25th August 2009, 09:31 PM

Sajen,

to me it looks really good now

Have you seen this? I think, it would be interesting for you.

http://keris.fotopic.net/c1391296.html

Sajen · 25th August 2009, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

Sajen,

to me it looks really good now

Have you seen this? I think, it would be interesting for you.

http://keris.fotopic.net/c1391296.html

Gustav,

thank's, yes this hilt fits very good with all other, I every time change between both hilts.
The keris from the link I know from this site, a very nice keris indeed, thank's for the link.

Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 26th August 2009, 01:29 AM

All education costs money.

It is not possible to complete even kindergarten satisfactorily unless a child has parents who are able and prepared to spend money.

To gain a Phd., what is the total cost?

This dictum of education costing money holds true in any field that I can think of, and it most definitely holds true in respect of keris. My own education in the keris has cost me far more than I can count, or would want to count.

But I can remember many of the better lessons that I gained along the way. Probably the best single lesson was the exquisite keris singo barong kinatah that I bought from a very well known dealer in Jakarta in about 1974. At that time I had already collected and studied keris for more than 15 years, but my lessons in the keris had been learnt outside Indonesia, and outside the Javanese keris trade.

It took until about 1980 before I had gained sufficient knowledge to understand that the superb keris singo barong that I bought in Jakarta some years previously was in fact a total falsification. In fact, I learnt this by meeting the man who had very probably carried out the falsification, and who lived in Jln. Wates in Jogjakarta; I am quite comfortable in giving this information, as the gentleman of whom I speak left the land of the living some years ago.

Perhaps the best place to gain an education in the keris is in the market place, which means of course that our teachers will be dealers, at least in the first instance. However, perhaps the lesson taught by that dealer, will not become obvious until some later date, as was the case with the singo barong I bought during the time I was still in kindergarten.

Alternatively, there is the choice not to learn at all, but simply to believe whatever we will.

Marcokeris · 26th August 2009, 01:57 PM

[QUOTE=Gustav]Sajen,

to me it looks really good now

Also I have the same opinion.

....About the Sumbawa keris: i remember that two years ago in Balì I saw many many Sumbawa keris for sale. Really many many keris. The strange thing was that bebore Sumbawa keris were (for me) very difficult to see in Balì (i never had seen one before in Balì). Also the (IMO new) hit similar to Banjarmasin hits i saw for the first time in Bali 4/5 years ago (before one...the year after many)

About sarong ... I remember a few years ago in Taman Sari area (Yogya) I saw two big wooden boxes full of Lombok sarong (very nice work and made by really good wood). The owner told me that they are all new, made in Jawa and right to send to Lombok/Bali market

Mick · 26th August 2009, 05:53 PM

Here is another one, but with a difference. All of the pictures so far have illustrated the normal reposse metal work. The metal work on this piece is all solder work. This is the reason that I bought this piece which was priced way over my limit for new work. How anyone had the patience to accomplish this task as well as how they actually accomplished it is beyond me.

25th August 2009, 06:01 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,165	Here a picture of the keris with the hilt from wood. Attached Images

26th August 2009, 05:53 PM	#9
Mick Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Orlando Posts: 104	Here is another one, but with a difference. All of the pictures so far have illustrated the normal reposse metal work. The metal work on this piece is all solder work. This is the reason that I bought this piece which was priced way over my limit for new work. How anyone had the patience to accomplish this task as well as how they actually accomplished it is beyond me. Attached Images

24th August 2009, 11:02 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	The workmanship in the hilt and pendok both look like Javanese workmanship to me.I am not talking about style here, but about the way in which elements of the work have been completed. If that wooden hilt is the hilt that the keris came with, I'd be inclined to refit it.

25th August 2009, 09:37 AM	#2
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	Hello Sajen, this wooden hilt is nice. Another thing - it seems to me, that the selut of this "original" hilt and toli-toli are pretty similar in style, but they are really different to the pendhok. I think, the possibility this warangka comes from Sumbawa is great. They love such horn on the top and that curled grain. A question - are the opening in this horn slice and the mouth of warangka identical in size?

25th August 2009, 09:31 PM	#5
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	Sajen, to me it looks really good now Have you seen this? I think, it would be interesting for you. http://keris.fotopic.net/c1391296.html

26th August 2009, 01:29 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	All education costs money. It is not possible to complete even kindergarten satisfactorily unless a child has parents who are able and prepared to spend money. To gain a Phd., what is the total cost? This dictum of education costing money holds true in any field that I can think of, and it most definitely holds true in respect of keris. My own education in the keris has cost me far more than I can count, or would want to count. But I can remember many of the better lessons that I gained along the way. Probably the best single lesson was the exquisite keris singo barong kinatah that I bought from a very well known dealer in Jakarta in about 1974. At that time I had already collected and studied keris for more than 15 years, but my lessons in the keris had been learnt outside Indonesia, and outside the Javanese keris trade. It took until about 1980 before I had gained sufficient knowledge to understand that the superb keris singo barong that I bought in Jakarta some years previously was in fact a total falsification. In fact, I learnt this by meeting the man who had very probably carried out the falsification, and who lived in Jln. Wates in Jogjakarta; I am quite comfortable in giving this information, as the gentleman of whom I speak left the land of the living some years ago. Perhaps the best place to gain an education in the keris is in the market place, which means of course that our teachers will be dealers, at least in the first instance. However, perhaps the lesson taught by that dealer, will not become obvious until some later date, as was the case with the singo barong I bought during the time I was still in kindergarten. Alternatively, there is the choice not to learn at all, but simply to believe whatever we will.

26th August 2009, 01:57 PM	#8
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	[QUOTE=Gustav]Sajen, to me it looks really good now Also I have the same opinion. ....About the Sumbawa keris: i remember that two years ago in Balì I saw many many Sumbawa keris for sale. Really many many keris. The strange thing was that bebore Sumbawa keris were (for me) very difficult to see in Balì (i never had seen one before in Balì). Also the (IMO new) hit similar to Banjarmasin hits i saw for the first time in Bali 4/5 years ago (before one...the year after many) About sarong ... I remember a few years ago in Taman Sari area (Yogya) I saw two big wooden boxes full of Lombok sarong (very nice work and made by really good wood). The owner told me that they are all new, made in Jawa and right to send to Lombok/Bali market