Barung; weapon, tool or tourist piece?

KuKulzA28 · 21st August 2009, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by migueldiaz

Still on contemporary use of blades among Moros, the Phil. military had a skirmish recently with Moro rebels.

A newspaper report mentioned this about the Moro leader who was one of the seven Moro casualties:
"Authorities identified the group’s leader [Abdullah Abdurajak] through his kris and .45 cal. pistol, which are known symbols of authority among Muslim groups."
Another newspaper article said that aside from high-powered arms, the soldiers also collected blades from the seven dead Moro rebels.

Looks like blades are still very much in use on both sides ...

wow... figures, .45 and kris, deadly weapons both of them

Thanks for reviving this thread, I thought interest had died off.

Battara · 21st August 2009, 04:30 AM

Oh no the interest is still alive, especially since the PI Armed Forces train for combat with ginuting.

wilked aka Khun Deng · 21st August 2009, 07:34 AM

Glad you brought it back up also as I missed it. The blade originally in question is as migeldiaz noted a modern pira. Common in markets and throughout the Sulu archipelago now days. I actually have one with a horse hoof handle that was throw in the trash at our camp (a rescue operation for me). They run about 400 pesos or $8 at the market and surprisingly enough, most having been made from blanks, all I saw were heat-treated. BTW the ASG is concentrated in Jolo and Basilan (islands in the Sulu archipelago) for location reference.

Yes most soldiers of every persuasion carry a knife and the modern pira is quite capable. Heat treated and sharp enough for small work, great for whacking down the needed branches for a quick lean-to or clearing an overgrown trail and still heavy enough to split open a coconut, yet deadly in close combat (though most engagements are at sight distance 100m or less in the canopy - Tausugs are notoriously bad shots).

We've already discussed the .45 cal in previous posts as the status symbol der jur for most in Southern Mindanao, shooting clubs abound and if you are anybody you belong to one and compete regularly. Lady Ann, the Vice Governor of Jolo and owner of one of the most impressive tricked out .45s I've seen is quite the shot. Extended mags are a must!

As for Pandys, they still exist in Jolo but most of their work is relegated to mass quantity stuff, though I did meet one in Indanan who said he still does the traditional stuff and does the occasional repair of a family heirloom.

I had a scabbard made for an old barong I picked up there and while solid the craftsmanship wasn't the same quality as the others I have- the repair of the silver work however was top notch - single instance perhaps.

While in Central Mindanao while I asked around continually (Cotobato and Maguindanao) I couldn't find a single pandy or any old pieces that anyone would show much less offer for sale -disappointing.

migueldiaz · 22nd August 2009, 08:09 AM

Thanks for those info, Dan

I was just wondering, have you had the chance to see Ilaga militiamen in your travels to Mindanao?

The 2008 pics below show Ilaga militia of Cotabato in Mindanao. The pics are not mine incidentally (and I haven't met an Ilaga before).

I ask because of the historical significance of the relationship between the Ilagas and the Moros. The Ilagas are Visayans (from Panay/ Negros) who migrated to Mindanao to settle there.

And given that Ilagas (who are allied with the government) are militants like the Moros, their relationship has always been strained to put it mildly.

My query is as to whether the Ilagas still carry edged weapons with them up to now (e.g., tenegre or ginunting, like their forefathers did), in the same manner that Moro rebels still carry kris and barong up to this day.

I was reviewing the pics below but I can't find any sign of those blades ...

wilked aka Khun Deng · 22nd August 2009, 09:26 AM

Migel,
No I haven't run across them, at least not named as a group. But in Central Mindanao I only got out into Maguindanao and and up around Marawi. But now that you mention it even the MILF I saw standing guard didn't have a blade visible. strange for a regular soldier, but even amongst a know group like the MILF most are not regular soldiers just young men with no opportunity and a family or clan allegiance that requires them to take a side.

What I have found is that the groupings there (family and clan) are still very insular so while some may not carry blades other groups only a short distance away may (the Lumad tribes still do). Having said that, the status of carrying a blade has long since been replaced by the weapon you carry, in an arguable priority order M-1, M2 carbine, BAR, AK-47 (rare and ammo difficult) M-16, M-16A2, M-60 MG, .45 cal and if you're REALLY somebody a M-4 (M-16 carbine) - note the guy in the bleached out camouflage top either a leader or related).

I'd assume from the history and pictures I've read that the Kampilan was the top of the heap for status when swords were the primary weapon as they usually incorporated a bearerbut if anyone has insight on that I'd be interested.

Dan

Spunjer · 22nd August 2009, 12:54 PM

miguel,
hehe, now we're talking ilonggo here. some of the Ilagas (literally meaning Rat) still carry blades, in the form of Binangon, but it's more of a utilitarian than primary weapon. but you can bet on this: lots of them has some form of anting-anting. used to be a lot of Ilagas in the outskirt of gensan.

migueldiaz · 22nd August 2009, 02:05 PM

Spunjer/ Dan, below is the last pic I got of the reactivation of the Ilagas in 2008.

To all -- the Ilagas are supposedly the only group that the Moros are wary about.

In fact last year when the Moro rebels went on a rampage in Mindanao, the reactivation of the Ilagas by the government as one of the countermeasures made the Moro rebels complain something to the effect that "It's not fair!".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

miguel, hehe, now we're talking ilonggo here. some of the Ilagas (literally meaning Rat) still carry blades, in the form of Binangon, but it's more of a utilitarian than primary weapon. but you can bet on this: lots of them has some form of anting-anting. used to be a lot of Ilagas in the outskirt of gensan.

Spunjer, am really glad you can make it

At last, we have an Ilonggo who can shed more light on what his Ilaga uncles are made of

Hey, I didn't know that the name means rats.

By the way, are the notches on the rifle (left photo) supposed to mean number of kills? The right photo on the other hand shows the big boss of this Ilaga group. Does that barrel look like it's an M-16-A4?

Last but not the least, thanks for the comment on the binangon! And yes, I do know that the Ilagas are deep into anting-antings (talismans).

As a last point, unlike the Moros, it is apparent that the Ilagas (and Ilonggos, in general?) don't have any sentimentality and symbolism for the tenegres and ginuntings of their forefathers ...

migueldiaz · 22nd August 2009, 01:48 PM

Thanks again Dan for those front seat observations!

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilked aka Khun Deng

... Having said that, the status of carrying a blade has long since been replaced by the weapon you carry, in an arguable priority order M-1, M2 carbine, BAR, AK-47 (rare and ammo difficult) M-16, M-16A2, M-60 MG, .45 cal and if you're REALLY somebody a M-4 (M-16 carbine) - note the guy in the bleached out camouflage top either a leader or related).

I wonder where the Tommy Gun will be in the hierarchy?

22nd August 2009, 08:09 AM	#4
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	Thanks for those info, Dan I was just wondering, have you had the chance to see Ilaga militiamen in your travels to Mindanao? The 2008 pics below show Ilaga militia of Cotabato in Mindanao. The pics are not mine incidentally (and I haven't met an Ilaga before). I ask because of the historical significance of the relationship between the Ilagas and the Moros. The Ilagas are Visayans (from Panay/ Negros) who migrated to Mindanao to settle there. And given that Ilagas (who are allied with the government) are militants like the Moros, their relationship has always been strained to put it mildly. My query is as to whether the Ilagas still carry edged weapons with them up to now (e.g., tenegre or ginunting, like their forefathers did), in the same manner that Moro rebels still carry kris and barong up to this day. I was reviewing the pics below but I can't find any sign of those blades ... Attached Images

21st August 2009, 04:30 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Oh no the interest is still alive, especially since the PI Armed Forces train for combat with ginuting.

21st August 2009, 07:34 AM	#3
wilked aka Khun Deng Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oahu, Hawaii Posts: 166	Glad you brought it back up also as I missed it. The blade originally in question is as migeldiaz noted a modern pira. Common in markets and throughout the Sulu archipelago now days. I actually have one with a horse hoof handle that was throw in the trash at our camp (a rescue operation for me). They run about 400 pesos or $8 at the market and surprisingly enough, most having been made from blanks, all I saw were heat-treated. BTW the ASG is concentrated in Jolo and Basilan (islands in the Sulu archipelago) for location reference. Yes most soldiers of every persuasion carry a knife and the modern pira is quite capable. Heat treated and sharp enough for small work, great for whacking down the needed branches for a quick lean-to or clearing an overgrown trail and still heavy enough to split open a coconut, yet deadly in close combat (though most engagements are at sight distance 100m or less in the canopy - Tausugs are notoriously bad shots). We've already discussed the .45 cal in previous posts as the status symbol der jur for most in Southern Mindanao, shooting clubs abound and if you are anybody you belong to one and compete regularly. Lady Ann, the Vice Governor of Jolo and owner of one of the most impressive tricked out .45s I've seen is quite the shot. Extended mags are a must! As for Pandys, they still exist in Jolo but most of their work is relegated to mass quantity stuff, though I did meet one in Indanan who said he still does the traditional stuff and does the occasional repair of a family heirloom. I had a scabbard made for an old barong I picked up there and while solid the craftsmanship wasn't the same quality as the others I have- the repair of the silver work however was top notch - single instance perhaps. While in Central Mindanao while I asked around continually (Cotobato and Maguindanao) I couldn't find a single pandy or any old pieces that anyone would show much less offer for sale -disappointing.

22nd August 2009, 09:26 AM	#5
wilked aka Khun Deng Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oahu, Hawaii Posts: 166	Migel, No I haven't run across them, at least not named as a group. But in Central Mindanao I only got out into Maguindanao and and up around Marawi. But now that you mention it even the MILF I saw standing guard didn't have a blade visible. strange for a regular soldier, but even amongst a know group like the MILF most are not regular soldiers just young men with no opportunity and a family or clan allegiance that requires them to take a side. What I have found is that the groupings there (family and clan) are still very insular so while some may not carry blades other groups only a short distance away may (the Lumad tribes still do). Having said that, the status of carrying a blade has long since been replaced by the weapon you carry, in an arguable priority order M-1, M2 carbine, BAR, AK-47 (rare and ammo difficult) M-16, M-16A2, M-60 MG, .45 cal and if you're REALLY somebody a M-4 (M-16 carbine) - note the guy in the bleached out camouflage top either a leader or related). I'd assume from the history and pictures I've read that the Kampilan was the top of the heap for status when swords were the primary weapon as they usually incorporated a bearerbut if anyone has insight on that I'd be interested. Dan

22nd August 2009, 12:54 PM	#6
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	miguel, hehe, now we're talking ilonggo here. some of the Ilagas (literally meaning Rat) still carry blades, in the form of Binangon, but it's more of a utilitarian than primary weapon. but you can bet on this: lots of them has some form of anting-anting. used to be a lot of Ilagas in the outskirt of gensan.