Arsenic or realgar for Keris etching?

[kulbuntet]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Thanks for your story Michel.

I know I began this line of discussion, but I do not want to take it any further.

What I have already put up for public perusal is much more than I perhaps should have.

If you wish to increase your understanding I would most sincerely recommend that you undertake a continuing study of Javanese history and culture. Additionally, you must learn the language. Without the ability to use Indonesian you will forever be severly handicapped. Without the ability to at least understand some Javanese, and most importantly, to understand the logic of the Javanese language, you cannot hope to be able to understand the Javanese world view. Ideally you would want to learn Javanese, but this might be too big a project.

This is the base you must come from if you wish to understand the blossoms of Javanese culture.

Alan, I understand and share your wish to dont go in anny further on the first part. I do respect you wish, and iff i may be honoust... i never wnat to go into that in public too.. but for this time needed to do so.. I hope you understand.. if not, my apologies for doing so.

I understand that it is a must can do, to understand Javanese... My question.. wil Bahasado the job too? Since the Indonesian goverment forbids the public use of old languages? And do the younger Javanese people stil know the old Javanese? The understand of old Javanese is nesisary to study old manuscripts and other old publisched works, but are there no transations to bahasa? I did start to get aacquainted with bahasa.. but since i dont have a good teacher and not the time to self teach...it on low level now.

[A. G. Maisey]

The Indonesian Govt. forbids public use of old languages?

News to me.

Where I spend most of my time in Indonesia is Solo. In Solo everybody uses Javanese all the time. Even when they use Indonesian it is very rarely Indonesian by the book but Indonesian mixed with Javanese. In Bali I hear people speraking Balinese between themselves. In East Jawa --- where my wife comes from --- everybody uses Javanese all the time.

In schools in Solo, Javanese in its local form ( Basa Daerah) is taught as a subject, along with the other usual subjects. Children need to learn the old outdated alphabet, hanacaraka.

Indonesian is the "public" language and is used for classroom instruction, most newspapers, and general communication. It is the most useful single language for a foreigner to learn. However many of the Indonesians I know are competent in several languages, for instance, my wife, who is Javanese/Chinese speaks East Javanese dialect, Central Javanese dialect, Indonesian, Indonesian/Javanese/Chinese dialect, some Mandarin, some Dutch, and of course, English. However, she is unable to use Madya and Krama, her Javanese is limited to Ngoko.On the other hand, I know people in Solo who cannot read nor write, but who can use perfect Javanese in all levels.

Formal hierarchically structured Javanese is gradually disappearing, but ordinary low level Javanese is the natural language of everybody who lives in Jawa.

Old Javanese is a different language to Modern Javanese, and the literary language of old Jawa, Kawi, is different again to Old Javanese. The relationship between Old Javanese and Modern Javanese is like the relationship between Old English and Modern English.

Some works in Old Javanese, Kawi, and Modern Javanese have been translated into Indonesian, and I think some might also be available in English.

I did not learn Indonesian nor Javanese in a classroom setting. I tried this when I began to learn, but was spectacularly unsuccessful. In fact, I have very little talent in languages, but I do have a good ear and can speak with a pretty fair accent. All my language skills have been gained by actual forced use of the languages.