two types of Piras?

KuKulzA28 · 17th August 2009, 08:24 PM

Ok, so the shorter hump-back Pira comes after the sword-like Pira?

Why the new form? is it because of reasons I guessed at earlier (shift in weaponry, disarming, utility vs. war), or ones I had not considered?

Thanks by the way

Lee · 17th August 2009, 09:08 PM

This pira was purchased in the market in Zamboanga City in the mid 1970s. I recall that the stall had a number of what I remember as huge kris-like blades with silver wire inlay (tourist versus real I cannot say now), but this was the one thing that caught my novice eye (I recall the brass in the stall was pretty touristy). The scabbard has been wrapped with black plastic electrical tape - so much like what I would have done in that time - but in this case it came to me like that, loosely over-wrapped with the strip of cloth. It did not strike me as being really old, maybe about a decade (though it now looks much the same after I have had it nearly 35 years!), but it did have some evidence of use and work staining and light bleaching of the handle and scabbard. It was and remains incredibly sharp. I have always regarded it first as a tool, but clearly it could very effectively serve as a weapon. So, I'll speculate that this is a utilitarian tool. To me, it is a distinct type, as opposed to being evolved from the somewhat more flamboyant weapon.

t_c · 17th August 2009, 09:11 PM

I believe that you are correct and that the "humpback" version is the modern predecessor of the more elegant old style.

There was some discussion on these in the old forum:

http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000136.html

http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001032.html

http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000758.html

As far as the why's?.....

Lee · 17th August 2009, 09:24 PM

Oh dear, following the links, I guess I have trotted this one out a few times before. Sorry about that.

But this does bring up an issue of lost pictures in threads. Please, whenever possible, use the facility to upload pictures to the vikingsword.com server rather than hosting them on a third party photo sharing site. That way they should at least survive as long as the text does.

We have seen several photo hosting services close or merge with links broken and sometimes even the images lost. Personally, when my cable company changed the naming for the small web space they provide to me as part of the package this broke many image links I had posted to other various forums I was a member of.

Rick · 17th August 2009, 10:21 PM

Possibly we are looking at the de-evolution of a pure weapon to an agricultural tool .

Notice the less pronounced belly in the blade of the newer examples; better for brush than very curved for human targets .I think that if you take the upper side of the point of the oldest example and carry that line closer to the hilt you wind up with the agricultural form .

migueldiaz · 18th August 2009, 01:52 AM

Interesting thread! I still find the early 1900s pira the most graceful of all (from Krieger) -- I wish I had one

migueldiaz · 18th August 2009, 02:23 AM

Here's the oldest pira I have, which is my pride and joy

Rick · 18th August 2009, 02:38 AM

I must thank my Wife and Charles for my example .
http://www.arscives.com/historysteel...s1/182-rb6.jpg

Lucky guy am I .

17th August 2009, 09:08 PM	#2
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 937	No answers, just another data point and some speculation This pira was purchased in the market in Zamboanga City in the mid 1970s. I recall that the stall had a number of what I remember as huge kris-like blades with silver wire inlay (tourist versus real I cannot say now), but this was the one thing that caught my novice eye (I recall the brass in the stall was pretty touristy). The scabbard has been wrapped with black plastic electrical tape - so much like what I would have done in that time - but in this case it came to me like that, loosely over-wrapped with the strip of cloth. It did not strike me as being really old, maybe about a decade (though it now looks much the same after I have had it nearly 35 years!), but it did have some evidence of use and work staining and light bleaching of the handle and scabbard. It was and remains incredibly sharp. I have always regarded it first as a tool, but clearly it could very effectively serve as a weapon. So, I'll speculate that this is a utilitarian tool. To me, it is a distinct type, as opposed to being evolved from the somewhat more flamboyant weapon. Attached Images

17th August 2009, 09:24 PM	#4
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 937	A plea to preserve the archives Oh dear, following the links, I guess I have trotted this one out a few times before. Sorry about that. But this does bring up an issue of lost pictures in threads. Please, whenever possible, use the facility to upload pictures to the vikingsword.com server rather than hosting them on a third party photo sharing site. That way they should at least survive as long as the text does. We have seen several photo hosting services close or merge with links broken and sometimes even the images lost. Personally, when my cable company changed the naming for the small web space they provide to me as part of the package this broke many image links I had posted to other various forums I was a member of.

17th August 2009, 10:21 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Possibly we are looking at the de-evolution of a pure weapon to an agricultural tool . Notice the less pronounced belly in the blade of the newer examples; better for brush than very curved for human targets .I think that if you take the upper side of the point of the oldest example and carry that line closer to the hilt you wind up with the agricultural form . Last edited by Rick; 17th August 2009 at 10:36 PM.

18th August 2009, 01:52 AM	#6
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	Interesting thread! I still find the early 1900s pira the most graceful of all (from Krieger) -- I wish I had one Attached Images Last edited by migueldiaz; 18th August 2009 at 02:15 AM.

18th August 2009, 02:23 AM	#7
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	Here's the oldest pira I have, which is my pride and joy Attached Images

17th August 2009, 08:24 PM	#1
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Ok, so the shorter hump-back Pira comes after the sword-like Pira? Why the new form? is it because of reasons I guessed at earlier (shift in weaponry, disarming, utility vs. war), or ones I had not considered? Thanks by the way

17th August 2009, 09:11 PM	#3
t_c Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: ca, usa Posts: 92	I believe that you are correct and that the "humpback" version is the modern predecessor of the more elegant old style. There was some discussion on these in the old forum: http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000136.html http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001032.html http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000758.html As far as the why's?.....

18th August 2009, 02:38 AM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	I must thank my Wife and Charles for my example . http://www.arscives.com/historysteel...s1/182-rb6.jpg Lucky guy am I .