Arsenic or realgar for Keris etching?

ganjawulung · 15th August 2009, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Look, we can tell all the yarns we like, and recount second hand stories, .... .

Would you please clarify this sentence, Mr Maisey? Thank you in advance...

GANJAWULUNG

A. G. Maisey · 15th August 2009, 01:57 PM

Pak Ganja, this is the sentence I wrote:-

Look, we can tell all the yarns we like, and recount second hand stories, but I've used both traditional warangan and lab quality arsenic trioxide.

Read the entire sentence and I'm certain it is perfectly clear.

Read the paragraph and there can be doubt at all of my meaning:-

Look, we can tell all the yarns we like, and recount second hand stories, but I've used both traditional warangan and lab quality arsenic trioxide. Both can produce a good result. Neither is corrosive. Time taken to do the job, averaged over a number of blades is about the same. If I need to do the job when I'm in Solo, I use warangan. If I do the job at home I use arsenic. I probably prefer arsenic, but that's only because I've used it more often, plus the fact that the warangan that I can currently buy in Solo is just not all that good.

However, just so there will be no doubt at all about my meaning I will attempt to clarify, as you have requested.

I am drawing a comparison between my actual experience over a very long period of time, involving a very large number of blades, and using both substances, namely traditional warangan, and lab. quality arsenic trioxide, and your recounting of the experience of others that has been related to you.

As you would appreciate, this is the difference between extensive first hand experience, my own, and your received reports and impressions from other people.

You are perfectly at liberty to ignore or discount my comments if you so desire, because in fact, from your perspective, my recounted experience need carry no more weight than the experiences of others that have similarly been presented to you.

Your acceptance or rejection of my comments is of absolutely no importance to me:- I have told what I know to be true and I see no need to prove anything to you, nor to any other person. However, your acceptance of the results of my experience could be to your benefit, although this acceptance would not make one iota of difference to my state of existence.

David · 15th August 2009, 03:27 PM

I do not have anywhere near the staining experience that Alan has, but i must report that i have never had a corrosive effect from staining with arsenic trioxide. I do not have any experience with warangan to compare with, but no corrosive effect is still no corrosive effect and does not need comparison to be a true statement.
I also am not sure why Ganja provided these links to arsenic trioxide warnings either. You will notice that these are basically warnings about ingestion. Again, i would recommend that it is just plain common sense that you not lick your fingers when working with this stuff, do it in a safe environment and clean up well when you are finished. Warangan would be similarly poisonous if ingested so the same warnings would stand for it as well.
Ganja, i believe Alan's remark about "yarns and second hand stories" was not aimed specifically at you. Such second hand advice has been sprinkled throughout this thread and frankly i have found some of it to be questionable info. So far Alan is the only person who has posted information on this thread who has had a vast amount of consistent first-hand staining experience with both lab arsenic and realgar. This experience spans the past 50 years! I am personally willing to hear the advice of others with such experience. But i am more likely to give credence to the first-hand informant with vast knowledge of the process than i am to believe second-hand info for informants i have no personal connection with.

ganjawulung · 15th August 2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

You are perfectly at liberty to ignore or discount my comments if you so desire, because in fact, from your perspective, my recounted experience need carry no more weight than the experiences of others that have similarly been presented to you. .

I always take positive sides on anything. Even on negative situation. Anyway, thanks for your comments, Alan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I am personally willing to hear the advice of others with such experience. But i am more likely to give credence to the first-hand informant with vast knowledge of the process than i am to believe second-hand info for informants i have no personal connection with.

Thanks, thanks a lot, David....

GANJAWULUNG

15th August 2009, 01:57 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Pak Ganja, this is the sentence I wrote:- Look, we can tell all the yarns we like, and recount second hand stories, but I've used both traditional warangan and lab quality arsenic trioxide. Read the entire sentence and I'm certain it is perfectly clear. Read the paragraph and there can be doubt at all of my meaning:- Look, we can tell all the yarns we like, and recount second hand stories, but I've used both traditional warangan and lab quality arsenic trioxide. Both can produce a good result. Neither is corrosive. Time taken to do the job, averaged over a number of blades is about the same. If I need to do the job when I'm in Solo, I use warangan. If I do the job at home I use arsenic. I probably prefer arsenic, but that's only because I've used it more often, plus the fact that the warangan that I can currently buy in Solo is just not all that good. However, just so there will be no doubt at all about my meaning I will attempt to clarify, as you have requested. I am drawing a comparison between my actual experience over a very long period of time, involving a very large number of blades, and using both substances, namely traditional warangan, and lab. quality arsenic trioxide, and your recounting of the experience of others that has been related to you. As you would appreciate, this is the difference between extensive first hand experience, my own, and your received reports and impressions from other people. You are perfectly at liberty to ignore or discount my comments if you so desire, because in fact, from your perspective, my recounted experience need carry no more weight than the experiences of others that have similarly been presented to you. Your acceptance or rejection of my comments is of absolutely no importance to me:- I have told what I know to be true and I see no need to prove anything to you, nor to any other person. However, your acceptance of the results of my experience could be to your benefit, although this acceptance would not make one iota of difference to my state of existence.

15th August 2009, 03:27 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	I do not have anywhere near the staining experience that Alan has, but i must report that i have never had a corrosive effect from staining with arsenic trioxide. I do not have any experience with warangan to compare with, but no corrosive effect is still no corrosive effect and does not need comparison to be a true statement. I also am not sure why Ganja provided these links to arsenic trioxide warnings either. You will notice that these are basically warnings about ingestion. Again, i would recommend that it is just plain common sense that you not lick your fingers when working with this stuff, do it in a safe environment and clean up well when you are finished. Warangan would be similarly poisonous if ingested so the same warnings would stand for it as well. Ganja, i believe Alan's remark about "yarns and second hand stories" was not aimed specifically at you. Such second hand advice has been sprinkled throughout this thread and frankly i have found some of it to be questionable info. So far Alan is the only person who has posted information on this thread who has had a vast amount of consistent first-hand staining experience with both lab arsenic and realgar. This experience spans the past 50 years! I am personally willing to hear the advice of others with such experience. But i am more likely to give credence to the first-hand informant with vast knowledge of the process than i am to believe second-hand info for informants i have no personal connection with.