Photos from museum of artillery

M ELEY · 15th August 2009, 04:58 AM

I likewise don't want to hijack this great thread, but I was just wondering if anyone has any pics of any swivel guns/deck guns? Spiridonov's pics have one in the case that caught my eye (any chance for a closer pic of that one?). Just asking-

Mark

fernando · 15th August 2009, 04:45 PM

Hi Mark,
I wish i had myself a swivel/deck gun to picture and post it here

.
Attached are perspective pictures of the replica mounted on a 1500's discoveries nau (ship), that was built in a ship yard close from my place.
By the time of Portuguese King Dom Manuel I, a great impeller of naval weaponry, these guns were called berços (cradles), also it appears that this term originated elsewhere.
Also attached is a real one, possibly from the XII century, kept at the Oporto military museum.

Fernando

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fernando · 15th August 2009, 04:48 PM

The real thing

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M ELEY · 16th August 2009, 03:59 AM

Absolutely fantastic, Fernando. Thank you! I've become quite fascinated with swivels in their defense of ships. I had never heard the term "bercos" (cradles) before. Now I have more to research- Thanks. Anyone else with rail gun pics?
P.S. Fernando, you lucky dog! From those pics, you must live in a beautiful port city. Green with envy...

fernando · 17th August 2009, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

... P.S. Fernando, you lucky dog! From those pics, you must live in a beautiful port city. Green with envy...

When i mentioned close from my place i meant close from my home town . That is, the ship was built in the neighbour town, which is actualy 'glued' to mine.
Both are fishing ports, mine being nowadays a larger one. But in the town where this ship was made, there is much more naval construction history; in fact they used to build caravels there, in the discoveries period.
Tey coordinates Lat: 41.3728, Lon: -8.7719 through Google and you will see my town harbour.
Fernando

Dmitry · 16th August 2009, 08:21 PM

Judging by the breeches of these naval swivel guns, gases blew out of them like there's no tomorrow.

M ELEY · 17th August 2009, 04:03 AM

True, the breech-loading types might have lost some of their...um...gas

, but as a close-range weapon meant to sweep the enemies decks, they didn't necessarily need much range. That would have strictly been left up to the larger cannon.

celtan · 17th August 2009, 01:31 PM

Hi guys,

Muzzle-loading deck guns in Spain were known as Versos or Falcones, (althought the latter was sometimes employed up to three pounders).

These guns were used in both ships and land fortifications, and their advantage lies in that they could be served sometimes by a single soldier, and were fast to load and fire. Their firing angle could be depressed close to the vertical, for close targets, as enemies close to the walls, boarders, or when shooting from the "carajo" high in the mast.

Breech loaders such as this were known as Patarreros.

I wonder, what would be the market price of one like this..?

I know of one that was found at a wreck site, and is unceremoniously sitting in a corner (after being stabilized) at a local museum depot. I have been trying to make the authorities realize how important that piece is, but If I could give them a $ figure, perhaps they would take better care of it...

BTW: Some breech-loaders were of the larger caliber, and were sometimes fired in banks.

Best

M

fernando · 17th August 2009, 06:12 PM

Hola Manolo

Quote:

Originally Posted by celtan

... or when shooting from the "carajo" high in the mast ...

Here is a piece of semanthics that many people ignores, even Spanyards (mainly Galicians) and Portuguese, where the term is now only known for its second sense

.

Saludos

Fernando

fernando · 17th August 2009, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

True, the breech-loading types might have lost some of their...um...gas

, but as a close-range weapon meant to sweep the enemies decks, they didn't necessarily need much range. That would have strictly been left up to the larger cannon.

Correct reasoning; in fact, most of those pieces were of small dimensions and classified as anti personal. Some times they carried them along on foot, when making incursions in the interior.
They were also good to use in the bateis (ship's rowing boats) to board other ships or engage in battle with other rowing vessels, which so often took place.

15th August 2009, 04:45 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Mark, I wish i had myself a swivel/deck gun to picture and post it here . Attached are perspective pictures of the replica mounted on a 1500's discoveries nau (ship), that was built in a ship yard close from my place. By the time of Portuguese King Dom Manuel I, a great impeller of naval weaponry, these guns were called berços (cradles), also it appears that this term originated elsewhere. Also attached is a real one, possibly from the XII century, kept at the Oporto military museum. Fernando . Attached Images

15th August 2009, 04:48 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	The real thing . Attached Images

17th August 2009, 01:31 PM	#8
celtan Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: PR, USA Posts: 679	Hi guys, Muzzle-loading deck guns in Spain were known as Versos or Falcones, (althought the latter was sometimes employed up to three pounders). These guns were used in both ships and land fortifications, and their advantage lies in that they could be served sometimes by a single soldier, and were fast to load and fire. Their firing angle could be depressed close to the vertical, for close targets, as enemies close to the walls, boarders, or when shooting from the "carajo" high in the mast. Breech loaders such as this were known as Patarreros. I wonder, what would be the market price of one like this..? I know of one that was found at a wreck site, and is unceremoniously sitting in a corner (after being stabilized) at a local museum depot. I have been trying to make the authorities realize how important that piece is, but If I could give them a $ figure, perhaps they would take better care of it... BTW: Some breech-loaders were of the larger caliber, and were sometimes fired in banks. Best M Attached Images

15th August 2009, 04:58 AM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,156	I likewise don't want to hijack this great thread, but I was just wondering if anyone has any pics of any swivel guns/deck guns? Spiridonov's pics have one in the case that caught my eye (any chance for a closer pic of that one?). Just asking- Mark

16th August 2009, 03:59 AM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,156	Absolutely fantastic, Fernando. Thank you! I've become quite fascinated with swivels in their defense of ships. I had never heard the term "bercos" (cradles) before. Now I have more to research- Thanks. Anyone else with rail gun pics? P.S. Fernando, you lucky dog! From those pics, you must live in a beautiful port city. Green with envy...

16th August 2009, 08:21 PM	#6
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	Judging by the breeches of these naval swivel guns, gases blew out of them like there's no tomorrow.

17th August 2009, 04:03 AM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,156	True, the breech-loading types might have lost some of their...um...gas , but as a close-range weapon meant to sweep the enemies decks, they didn't necessarily need much range. That would have strictly been left up to the larger cannon.