Kaskara for Comment.

Rumpel · 7th August 2009, 10:18 AM

Hi all- I'm a long-time lurker, but actually registered specifically to post on this thread...

As Jim McDougall said, the Fur sultans, and particularly Ali Dinar, spring to mind.

At university, I was fortunate enough to handle (longingly!) Ali Dinar's ceremonial kaskara, which an alumnus had taken back as loot in 1916. An exceptionally poor image of it can be found on p37 of this brochure: http://www.dur.ac.uk/resources/unive...tyBrochure.pdf

You can just make out the interlinking-diamond-shaped pattern beaten into the silver/silver alloy of the handle. While there are differences- cross guards and pommel especially- a tentative attribution of Katana's kaskara to Ali Dinar's court and era seems reasonable.

The Solingen blade is interesting, as Ali Dinar’s effects also included an Austrian (that is, K&K stamped) pistol, reworked by, presumably, a local silversmith. Evidently, there was a working trade route for high-status weapons between the WW1 Triple Alliance and Ali Dinar’s court.

It might be worth contacting the Sudan Archive at Durham, by the way. They sell photo reproductions of many of the images in the collection, and of photos taken in 1916. Imagine if one of them showed a grinning squaddie brandishing a familiar-looking souvenir...

katana · 7th August 2009, 08:12 PM

Hi Rumpel

,
Welcome to the forum

... and thank you for taking the trouble to join the forum, to add your helpful and informative comments.

I will try and contact the Sudan Archive at Durham to see if they can provide further information.

The pommel design really has me stumped

.......but I do enjoy the occasional 'mystery'

Kind regards David

stephen wood · 7th August 2009, 08:38 PM

...the pommel ends in something very similar to what we would expect to see on an arm dagger.

katana · 8th August 2009, 06:21 PM

Interesting article on Sultan Ali Dinar battle with the British in 1916 ...

http://www.kaiserscross.com/188001/224322.html

Hi Stephen

,
yes, I too have noticed the similarities to the finials ....the faceted type especially. Nice daggers ..... not in competition with Lew are we

....I think he has the monopoly on arm daggers

Regards David

.

Wodimi · 9th August 2009, 01:02 AM

the last weekend I promised to show another W.Clauberg blade, but mounted with a southern Takuba handle. It is definitily an old mounting. For me it is very curious because first the Tuareg never have such Arabic calligraphy on their blades (or have somebody one?), second the tip is always round and at least normal shorter then Kaskaras. My longest Takuba is 98 cm. This Kaskara/Takuba - I call it "Kaskuba" - measure 1,12 m, a little bit longer, than my longest Kaskara.
Also one addition to the Clauberg mark. I was wrong when I said I believe before 1850. I found a book with all marks from Solingen sword producers.
The book say this standing knight was used the first time in 1850, not before.

Regards Wolf

www.spearcollector.com

katana · 9th August 2009, 02:26 PM

Hi Wolf,
very nice.... a fantastic 'Kaskuba'

.......excellent photography

.
The obvious possibility is a traded / captured blade ....very nice hilt.
I wondered about the 'balance' of the sword ....many seem to have a light-weight hilt/pommel (with thin light blades)....with the longer length of blade / weight this would be a problem ....has the hilt/pommel been weighted to overcome this ?
Wolf this sword deserves a seperate posting

Kind Regards David

Rick · 9th August 2009, 03:06 PM

Wolf, could I bother you for a close up of the mark on the fourth blade from the right ?

Could it be this mark ?

Wodimi · 9th August 2009, 06:13 PM

David, traded or captured blade would be a possibility, but I'm wondering that such traditional people like the Tuareg could have done so.
The 'balance' of the sword is okay, not perfect but okay. But I believe it was more used for ceremonial purpose, not for fighting, because the edges are not sharp. The third Kaskara from the right have a very very similar blade, same size, same calligraphy, no sharp edges, same half moons on the blade. Only the Clauberg stamp is missing, mayby under the crossguard. I think is not special weighted, but not sure. The balance point is nearly 1/3 to 2/3, sure near to the handle, so I think it's okay.

Rick, attached our two marks. As you can see a little bit different. Unfortunately I couldn't find any of them in all my books. Maybe someone from the forum can help....

Best
Wolf

www.spearcollector.com

7th August 2009, 10:18 AM	#1
Rumpel Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 63	Hi all- I'm a long-time lurker, but actually registered specifically to post on this thread... As Jim McDougall said, the Fur sultans, and particularly Ali Dinar, spring to mind. At university, I was fortunate enough to handle (longingly!) Ali Dinar's ceremonial kaskara, which an alumnus had taken back as loot in 1916. An exceptionally poor image of it can be found on p37 of this brochure: http://www.dur.ac.uk/resources/unive...tyBrochure.pdf You can just make out the interlinking-diamond-shaped pattern beaten into the silver/silver alloy of the handle. While there are differences- cross guards and pommel especially- a tentative attribution of Katana's kaskara to Ali Dinar's court and era seems reasonable. The Solingen blade is interesting, as Ali Dinar’s effects also included an Austrian (that is, K&K stamped) pistol, reworked by, presumably, a local silversmith. Evidently, there was a working trade route for high-status weapons between the WW1 Triple Alliance and Ali Dinar’s court. It might be worth contacting the Sudan Archive at Durham, by the way. They sell photo reproductions of many of the images in the collection, and of photos taken in 1916. Imagine if one of them showed a grinning squaddie brandishing a familiar-looking souvenir... Last edited by Rumpel; 7th August 2009 at 12:53 PM.

7th August 2009, 08:38 PM	#3
stephen wood Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 227	...the pommel ends in something very similar to what we would expect to see on an arm dagger. Attached Images

8th August 2009, 06:21 PM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Interesting article on Sultan Ali Dinar battle with the British in 1916 ... http://www.kaiserscross.com/188001/224322.html Hi Stephen , yes, I too have noticed the similarities to the finials ....the faceted type especially. Nice daggers ..... not in competition with Lew are we ....I think he has the monopoly on arm daggers Regards David . Attached Images

9th August 2009, 01:02 AM	#5
Wodimi Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 75	the last weekend I promised to show another W.Clauberg blade, but mounted with a southern Takuba handle. It is definitily an old mounting. For me it is very curious because first the Tuareg never have such Arabic calligraphy on their blades (or have somebody one?), second the tip is always round and at least normal shorter then Kaskaras. My longest Takuba is 98 cm. This Kaskara/Takuba - I call it "Kaskuba" - measure 1,12 m, a little bit longer, than my longest Kaskara. Also one addition to the Clauberg mark. I was wrong when I said I believe before 1850. I found a book with all marks from Solingen sword producers. The book say this standing knight was used the first time in 1850, not before. Regards Wolf www.spearcollector.com Attached Images

9th August 2009, 03:06 PM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	Wolf, could I bother you for a close up of the mark on the fourth blade from the right ? Could it be this mark ? Attached Images

7th August 2009, 08:12 PM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Rumpel , Welcome to the forum ... and thank you for taking the trouble to join the forum, to add your helpful and informative comments. I will try and contact the Sudan Archive at Durham to see if they can provide further information. The pommel design really has me stumped .......but I do enjoy the occasional 'mystery' Kind regards David

9th August 2009, 02:26 PM	#6
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Wolf, very nice.... a fantastic 'Kaskuba' .......excellent photography . The obvious possibility is a traded / captured blade ....very nice hilt. I wondered about the 'balance' of the sword ....many seem to have a light-weight hilt/pommel (with thin light blades)....with the longer length of blade / weight this would be a problem ....has the hilt/pommel been weighted to overcome this ? Wolf this sword deserves a seperate posting Kind Regards David

9th August 2009, 06:13 PM	#8
Wodimi Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 75	David, traded or captured blade would be a possibility, but I'm wondering that such traditional people like the Tuareg could have done so. The 'balance' of the sword is okay, not perfect but okay. But I believe it was more used for ceremonial purpose, not for fighting, because the edges are not sharp. The third Kaskara from the right have a very very similar blade, same size, same calligraphy, no sharp edges, same half moons on the blade. Only the Clauberg stamp is missing, mayby under the crossguard. I think is not special weighted, but not sure. The balance point is nearly 1/3 to 2/3, sure near to the handle, so I think it's okay. Rick, attached our two marks. As you can see a little bit different. Unfortunately I couldn't find any of them in all my books. Maybe someone from the forum can help.... Best Wolf www.spearcollector.com Attached Images