Symbolism of Bali Cecekahan handle?

[erikscollectables]

Exactly one of my questions too.
Will start travelling now so only join the forum again after the holidays but hope to learn more then...

Regards, Erik

Originally Posted by David

I have 2 of these hilts and i have noticed that on mine as well as Erik's and a few others there is also 5 lines notched into the back of the "head" of the hilt. Does anyone here have a clue as to the symbolism of these notches?

[Marcokeris]

Originally Posted by erikscollectables

Exactly one of my questions too.
Will start travelling now so only join the forum again after the holidays but hope to learn more then...

Regards, Erik

In Jensen's KRISDISK you can learn more

[David]

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

In Jensen's KRISDISK you can learn more

Care to share what you know here Marco? We don't all have Jensen's KrisDisk.

[Marcokeris]

Originally Posted by David

Care to share what you know here Marco? We don't all have Jensen's KrisDisk.

......The both hilts (Bébondollan and Cecekahan) might be a stylization of the Balu Mekabun (the veiled
widow) a representation of the death-goddess Durga. The incisions in Cecekahan hilt is said to represent the
folds in her sarong. Cedric Le Dauphin: The Hilts of Krisses, Chaos, Paris 2002, p 165. See chapter 5 p 2
and Fig 34 and chapter 6 Fig 74, 75 and Fig 82.

IMO the notches are not an arcaic meaning. They are only good for a better hold with hand (difficult to loose the handle)

[David]

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

IMO the notches are not an arcaic meaning. They are only good for a better hold with hand (difficult to loose the handle)

I am not convinced of this Marco. When i hold my 2 examples in the tradition grip (thumb and forefinger on the blade) my hand does not come in contact with these notches so i cannot see how they can aid in giving a better grip on the blade. Also, ever example i have seen has 5 notches, so it leads me to believe that there must be some significance to the number.

[Jussi M.]

Originally Posted by David

I am not convinced of this Marco. When i hold my 2 examples in the tradition grip (thumb and forefinger on the blade) my hand does not come in contact with these notches so i cannot see how they can aid in giving a better grip on the blade. Also, ever example i have seen has 5 notches, so it leads me to believe that there must be some significance to the number.

I was in the impression that Balinese kerises are hold differently from Javanese as the hilts are way much bigger? - Either I am wrong; your Balinese hilts are of the smallish side of how they come and/or you have Alexander Karelin´s hands David!

Also, I too have a hard time accepting that there is not any symbolism to the design having in mind that almost everything if not all having to do with the keris is/was symbolically loaded.

Thanks,

J

[Rick]

I can see your point Jussi .

Still .......

[Marcokeris]

....Also, ever example i have seen has 5 notches, so it leads me to believe that there must be some significance to the number. [/QUOTE]
This is a 9+9+3 example....but how many othes with different numbers there are?

[Gustav]

You can find another very interesting "Cekah Redut" (more then eleven notches) in Zonneveld's "Traditional weapons ..." on page 67. It is also polychrome - blue (black?), red and gold(?). This polychrome design looks very fine, somewehere "japanese"

These carvings on one side (five (?) lines). I have seen them only on cecekahan, never bondolan. May be, it is a symbol, bound to a certain group of people, the selected warriors with "Pemating"?

I allways thought, they are another primitive form of a face, but they are on the other side of hilt, and only on cecekahan (?).

[David]

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

....Also, ever example i have seen has 5 notches, so it leads me to believe that there must be some significance to the number.

This is a 9+9+3 example....but how many othes with different numbers there are? [/QUOTE]
Marco, just to clarify, i am inquiring about the 5 straight notches that are cut into the back of the "head" of the hilt, not the notches cut down the sides of the hilt. This last example you have posted also has these same 5 notches.

Jussi, i have average size hands and i have little problem extending my forefinger onto the blade much the way it is shown in the photo posted by Rick. The hilts are normal Bali size and i have no idea who Alexander Karelin is. Though i will point out that i have a number of smaller than average bondalan style hilts which make this grip very easy.