silver mounted file knife

Jim McDougall · 27th July 2009, 06:03 AM

Hi Berkeley,
Thank you for posting this, and I'm glad we get another shot at this!
I seldom disagree with Artzi's extremely accurate assessments, and this does have the distinct appearance of the shafra, however I think there may be an explanation for the conflicting identifications in yet another conundrum created via the trade routes between India and Arabia.

Also, the note by John Powell, another man I have always had great respect for for his outstanding work on the weapons of Nepal, in terming this a 'bank' may have been referencing the 'hook' type dynamic of the blade. The most commonly known bank is of course a crescent shaped hook blade usually described as a sickle form.

In "Islamic Weapons" Maghreb to Mughul" (A. Tirri, 2003) on p. 95, fig. 56, there are two knives of the 18th-19th c. termed shafra/matwa and of the Arabian Peninsula. These have the distinct form seen on this knife, with the cylindrical handle type hilt, the blade with the sharply angled hook, however these blades have the distinct raised central ridge of janbiyyas.
These are shown classified as Indo-Arab, suggesting a relationship in the form of course with India, and probably referencing this variance.

I am inclined to agree that the floral motif and silverwork appears to be of Nepali-Tibetan type, and for these influences to be found in Nepal-Bengal regions connected to trade into Hyderabad, where profound connections to the Arabian Peninsula have long been well established is not unusual.
Clearly, this piece is more likely later, but reflecting those influences.

In our earlier communication I noted the gile blade of the Afar in Ethiopian regions seems to have this type of angled blade. It is interesting to note the diffusion continuing to the east probably reflecting these same influences via the Red Sea trade.

Thanks again for posting this, and as always, I look forward to other thoughts.

All best regards,
Jim

Berkley · 28th July 2009, 02:40 AM

Jim,
Thank you very much for your thoughtful and scholarly comments. You have finally galvanized me into ordering a copy of Tirri's book.
Berk

Jim McDougall · 28th July 2009, 02:49 AM

You're very welcome Berk! It was great to look further into this one, and I always look forward to more from those who collect in these areas.

The Tirri book really is a beautifully photographed book which focuses on the grade of weapons most often encountered by collectors, and therefore serves as a comprehensive guidebook. As in most references, there are some points of contention, and one wishes there were more cited references to support some of the identification and captions, but I do find it most helpful in many cases.

All the best,
Jim

Emanuel · 28th July 2009, 04:03 AM

Hello, here's some more material to the debate.

In "Arms and Armour of Arabia" p.78, Elgood discusses the shafra, also known as a sikkin, al-khusa, rish or matwa, in various parts of the Arabian peninsula. It is a curved single edged knife, often worn behind the jambiya. They are often decorated with silver.

Of particular notice:
Omani silverworking centres include Nizwa, Rustaq, Ibir, Sur, and Bahla. Silverwork in Rustaq is identifiable by its flower motif.

Emanuel

kahnjar1 · 28th July 2009, 07:23 AM

As has been suggested by others here, I would also say Arabian, and probably a Shafra. As suggested by Emmanuel, this type of knife is often worn as a "back knife" to the Khanjar/Jambiya, but this one is bigger than those of I seen worn in this way. Similar to the Shafra in shape, is the 19th century Al Mahri Khanjar, from the Al Marah region of southern Arabia. Size of this item is approx same as the one in this post.
Regards Stuart

Jim McDougall · 28th July 2009, 04:20 PM

Emanuel and Stuart, thank you so much for these outstanding contributions.
This is exactly what I had hoped would evolve, supporting references and more similar examples.
Nice work on the reference from Elgood, Emanuel! I had completely neglected consulting that most important source (oops

), and you picked up the ball beautifully.

Stuart, thank you for the detailed information on these interesting knives and for adding the regional notation. It is really great when these threads become comprehensive data on a weapon type that we can refer to in future research, sort of a running research file.

It would seem we have established a good base of support for the Arabian attribution, and have little beyond the Egerton illustration toward the Nepalese/Bengali possibility. Without further support for that side, it would seem clear this is indeed a shafra type knife from Arabia.

Thank you so much guys!
All the best,
Jim

It would be interesting to know more on the range of terms on these weapons in Arabia that seem varied according to regions. Hopefully our linguists versed in Arabian might help?

kronckew · 29th July 2009, 12:20 AM

another arab knife with the primary edge on the inside of the curve is the north west african koummya

also a much shorter false edge on the outside of the curve. this one was marked tunisia 1933 by a previous owner via a small nail punched inscription on the grip near the blade end. (i'm not terribly fond of the large grip, it is not comfortable - the original poster's one looks much more practical.) it has an 8.25in. blade...

28th July 2009, 07:23 AM	#5
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,786	Arabian I would think also As has been suggested by others here, I would also say Arabian, and probably a Shafra. As suggested by Emmanuel, this type of knife is often worn as a "back knife" to the Khanjar/Jambiya, but this one is bigger than those of I seen worn in this way. Similar to the Shafra in shape, is the 19th century Al Mahri Khanjar, from the Al Marah region of southern Arabia. Size of this item is approx same as the one in this post. Regards Stuart Attached Images

28th July 2009, 04:20 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,194	Emanuel and Stuart, thank you so much for these outstanding contributions. This is exactly what I had hoped would evolve, supporting references and more similar examples. Nice work on the reference from Elgood, Emanuel! I had completely neglected consulting that most important source (oops), and you picked up the ball beautifully. Stuart, thank you for the detailed information on these interesting knives and for adding the regional notation. It is really great when these threads become comprehensive data on a weapon type that we can refer to in future research, sort of a running research file. It would seem we have established a good base of support for the Arabian attribution, and have little beyond the Egerton illustration toward the Nepalese/Bengali possibility. Without further support for that side, it would seem clear this is indeed a shafra type knife from Arabia. Thank you so much guys! All the best, Jim It would be interesting to know more on the range of terms on these weapons in Arabia that seem varied according to regions. Hopefully our linguists versed in Arabian might help?

27th July 2009, 06:03 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,194	Hi Berkeley, Thank you for posting this, and I'm glad we get another shot at this! I seldom disagree with Artzi's extremely accurate assessments, and this does have the distinct appearance of the shafra, however I think there may be an explanation for the conflicting identifications in yet another conundrum created via the trade routes between India and Arabia. Also, the note by John Powell, another man I have always had great respect for for his outstanding work on the weapons of Nepal, in terming this a 'bank' may have been referencing the 'hook' type dynamic of the blade. The most commonly known bank is of course a crescent shaped hook blade usually described as a sickle form. In "Islamic Weapons" Maghreb to Mughul" (A. Tirri, 2003) on p. 95, fig. 56, there are two knives of the 18th-19th c. termed shafra/matwa and of the Arabian Peninsula. These have the distinct form seen on this knife, with the cylindrical handle type hilt, the blade with the sharply angled hook, however these blades have the distinct raised central ridge of janbiyyas. These are shown classified as Indo-Arab, suggesting a relationship in the form of course with India, and probably referencing this variance. I am inclined to agree that the floral motif and silverwork appears to be of Nepali-Tibetan type, and for these influences to be found in Nepal-Bengal regions connected to trade into Hyderabad, where profound connections to the Arabian Peninsula have long been well established is not unusual. Clearly, this piece is more likely later, but reflecting those influences. In our earlier communication I noted the gile blade of the Afar in Ethiopian regions seems to have this type of angled blade. It is interesting to note the diffusion continuing to the east probably reflecting these same influences via the Red Sea trade. Thanks again for posting this, and as always, I look forward to other thoughts. All best regards, Jim

28th July 2009, 02:40 AM	#2
Berkley Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Austin, Texas USA Posts: 257	Jim, Thank you very much for your thoughtful and scholarly comments. You have finally galvanized me into ordering a copy of Tirri's book. Berk

28th July 2009, 02:49 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,194	You're very welcome Berk! It was great to look further into this one, and I always look forward to more from those who collect in these areas. The Tirri book really is a beautifully photographed book which focuses on the grade of weapons most often encountered by collectors, and therefore serves as a comprehensive guidebook. As in most references, there are some points of contention, and one wishes there were more cited references to support some of the identification and captions, but I do find it most helpful in many cases. All the best, Jim

28th July 2009, 04:03 AM	#4
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hello, here's some more material to the debate. In "Arms and Armour of Arabia" p.78, Elgood discusses the shafra, also known as a sikkin, al-khusa, rish or matwa, in various parts of the Arabian peninsula. It is a curved single edged knife, often worn behind the jambiya. They are often decorated with silver. Of particular notice: Omani silverworking centres include Nizwa, Rustaq, Ibir, Sur, and Bahla. Silverwork in Rustaq is identifiable by its flower motif. Emanuel

29th July 2009, 12:20 AM	#7
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	another arab knife with the primary edge on the inside of the curve is the north west african koummya also a much shorter false edge on the outside of the curve. this one was marked tunisia 1933 by a previous owner via a small nail punched inscription on the grip near the blade end. (i'm not terribly fond of the large grip, it is not comfortable - the original poster's one looks much more practical.) it has an 8.25in. blade...