Day To Night

Rick · 22nd July 2009, 08:33 PM

I thought we were dealing with an aspect of pawakan here ..

Is this angle socio-political in nature ?

Tim Simmons · 22nd July 2009, 08:45 PM

How sweet to have the ashes, Sorry Alan but you asked for it.

ganjawulung · 22nd July 2009, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I thought we were dealing with an aspect of pawakan here ..

Is this angle socio-political in nature ?

Dear Rick,
I think the "pawakan" had a special intention -- regarding the attitude of the owner. Or maybe 'socio-political in nature' according to your term if you consider too Pak Djeno's experience..

Anyway, I am very sorry Rick, to use your thread for other topic. I just mean it to clarify what Alan has said on Yogyakarta...

GANJAWULUNG

Rick · 22nd July 2009, 10:31 PM

Thank you Ganjawulung .

A. G. Maisey · 23rd July 2009, 12:12 AM

Yes Pak Ganja, of course what I wrote is a simplification, moreover, it is a simplification from the point of view of a British soldier who was involved in that action in Jogja in 1812.

I did not set out to give our readers here a history lesson, my objective was to give an easy to read gloss that put the body of the story without the details. I wanted to do this because I believe it is necessary to understand the less attractive parts of any society's history in order to fully appreciate the beauty of the more attractive aspects of the society. Far too often we glorify a society and a culture and we have the ludicrous spectacle of half educated people falling in love with that society, but really not knowing much about it. If we can fully understand both the positives and negatives of a society and culture, and still love it, that is true love.Much the same as true love between people.

I will have accomplished my overall objective if I can encourage just one person to involve him or herself in an ongoing and intensive study of Javanese culture, society and history. Any person who does this cannot fail to become enthralled by what they will learn.

I am sick to the guts of listening to people with little knowledge telling us how wonderful Javanese, or Balinese culture is, and having no true knowledge nor experience upon which to base their opinions.Either that, or being overtly nationalistic.

Do the study. Gain the experience. Then, knowing both the beauty and the pimples make the comments.

Pak Ganja, I have probably read all the same books as you, whenever you quote this author, or that author, if I check my library, I find that I have him on my shelves. I've been reading Javanese history since I was 14 years old, and I am well aware that there is always more than one way to look at any situation.

However, when we strip the details from the Jogja story, there can be no denying that my gloss is accurate.

ganjawulung · 23rd July 2009, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I did not set out to give our readers here a history lesson, my objective was to give an easy to read gloss that put the body of the story without the details. I wanted to do this because I believe it is necessary to understand the less attractive parts of any society's history in order to fully appreciate the beauty of the more attractive aspects of the society. Far too often we glorify a society and a culture and we have the ludicrous spectacle of half educated people falling in love with that society, but really not knowing much about it. If we can fully understand both the positives and negatives of a society and culture, and still love it, that is true love.Much the same as true love between people.

Thanks a lot, Alan,
Me either, I just want to tell the reality that actually in the dark side of Javanese history in the past was -- King PB II "had given the whole Mataram souvereignity while he was in grave ill to the Dutch Compagnie" on 1747, and Mangkubumi -- the younger brother of PB II from different mother -- had struggled to get a half of it and he succeeded in 1755, from the hand of Verenigde Oost-Indische Compagnie (headed by the Dutch) which had given the full right by PB II to handle Mataram kingdom. And that is Yogyakarta now...

I have learned a lot from the fault of the javanese in the past

Thank you, Alan

GANJAWULUNG

A. G. Maisey · 23rd July 2009, 02:56 AM

We can all learn a lot by looking at our own history with an objective eye.

The Dutch in Jawa were very clever people, and there can be no doubt that Javanese society and culture from the time of the Dutch entering Jawa has been influenced enormously by the actions and attitudes of the Dutch.

22nd July 2009, 08:33 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	I thought we were dealing with an aspect of pawakan here .. Is this angle socio-political in nature ? Last edited by Rick; 22nd July 2009 at 09:27 PM.

22nd July 2009, 08:45 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	How sweet to have the ashes, Sorry Alan but you asked for it.

22nd July 2009, 10:31 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Thank you Ganjawulung .

23rd July 2009, 12:12 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Yes Pak Ganja, of course what I wrote is a simplification, moreover, it is a simplification from the point of view of a British soldier who was involved in that action in Jogja in 1812. I did not set out to give our readers here a history lesson, my objective was to give an easy to read gloss that put the body of the story without the details. I wanted to do this because I believe it is necessary to understand the less attractive parts of any society's history in order to fully appreciate the beauty of the more attractive aspects of the society. Far too often we glorify a society and a culture and we have the ludicrous spectacle of half educated people falling in love with that society, but really not knowing much about it. If we can fully understand both the positives and negatives of a society and culture, and still love it, that is true love.Much the same as true love between people. I will have accomplished my overall objective if I can encourage just one person to involve him or herself in an ongoing and intensive study of Javanese culture, society and history. Any person who does this cannot fail to become enthralled by what they will learn. I am sick to the guts of listening to people with little knowledge telling us how wonderful Javanese, or Balinese culture is, and having no true knowledge nor experience upon which to base their opinions.Either that, or being overtly nationalistic. Do the study. Gain the experience. Then, knowing both the beauty and the pimples make the comments. Pak Ganja, I have probably read all the same books as you, whenever you quote this author, or that author, if I check my library, I find that I have him on my shelves. I've been reading Javanese history since I was 14 years old, and I am well aware that there is always more than one way to look at any situation. However, when we strip the details from the Jogja story, there can be no denying that my gloss is accurate.

23rd July 2009, 02:56 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	We can all learn a lot by looking at our own history with an objective eye. The Dutch in Jawa were very clever people, and there can be no doubt that Javanese society and culture from the time of the Dutch entering Jawa has been influenced enormously by the actions and attitudes of the Dutch.