Odd Oriental knife and brass scabbard -- revisited

Radu Transylvanicus · 7th May 2005, 08:25 PM

Looks Malayan to me, like a variation of a wedong chopper, pretty new also not older than a few decades ... Is that buddhist monk on the tin sheath suppose to make me believe its from more up north ?

Conogre · 8th May 2005, 07:27 AM

I can't help but notice the hilt, which looks distinctly like the Lombok wedungs, while very similar is found in many Philippine knives and swords, particularly on some reground machetes from the insurrection period that were definitley used as weapons as opposed to tools.
The scabbard appears incongrous to the piece, at first glance, yet an Oriental influence also seems to be quite well entrenched on Lombak as well.
I'm hoping that if Artzi is reading he'll post a photo of his "Philippine knife" as well.....this is also brought up under the current thread "two Lombak swords/knives"
Mike

Ian · 8th May 2005, 10:03 PM

Thanks Mike for the Lombok suggestion, and to all the others who responded with thoughts. Still somewhat of a mystery.

One thing I forgot to mention was the appearance of a hardened edge that is quite wide. I have not etched this blade, but simply polishing it seems to show that the edge is different from the rest of the blade.

tom hyle · 8th May 2005, 11:48 PM

The European knives I think it most closely resembles in overall outline are leather working or field-butchering (hunters') knives, but how heavy is this blade? If the sheath were absent I think I'd go PI; note the resemblance to Rick's "Jeep" headed sword? I don't know what to make of the sheath....

Ian · 9th May 2005, 04:36 AM

Tom:

Thickness of the spine at the hilt is about 3/16 inch.

Ian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom hyle

The European knives I think it most closely resembles in overall outline are leather working or field-butchering (hunters') knives, but how heavy is this blade? If the sheath were absent I think I'd go PI; note the resemblance to Rick's "Jeep" headed sword? I don't know what to make of the sheath....

Bill · 10th May 2005, 04:12 AM

doesn't look to have had been used a lot. India may also be a candidate. Can't find any good pictures of opium knives, maybe someone has a couple to post? here is a link to how a knife like this might have been used. http://www.uwmc.uwc.edu/political_sc...opiumprod.html

Conogre · 10th May 2005, 04:51 AM

The Lombok wedungs that I've seen are all chisel ground...flat on one side, beveled on the other and with a "catch" on one side of the scabbard to prevent them from sliding through a sash, and the photos of yours only show the one side of the scabbard, so are of little help.
The Philippine pieces that I've seen with similar hilts were tapered to a cutting edge evenly on both sides, with even re-ground machetes re-heated so as to have a tempered edge and yet with an uncanny resemblence to the hilts of the Lombok pieces, something that arises time after time between PI and Indonesian bladed weapons and tools, so there doesn't appear to be any clear cut answer.
I don't feel that yours is a Chinese reproduction though, even with the scabbard inscribing.
Could it be possible that this is a northern woman's knife, reminiscent of the Bagobo knives of the south?

8th May 2005, 07:27 AM	#2
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	I can't help but notice the hilt, which looks distinctly like the Lombok wedungs, while very similar is found in many Philippine knives and swords, particularly on some reground machetes from the insurrection period that were definitley used as weapons as opposed to tools. The scabbard appears incongrous to the piece, at first glance, yet an Oriental influence also seems to be quite well entrenched on Lombak as well. I'm hoping that if Artzi is reading he'll post a photo of his "Philippine knife" as well.....this is also brought up under the current thread "two Lombak swords/knives" Mike Attached Images

10th May 2005, 04:51 AM	#7
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	The Lombok wedungs that I've seen are all chisel ground...flat on one side, beveled on the other and with a "catch" on one side of the scabbard to prevent them from sliding through a sash, and the photos of yours only show the one side of the scabbard, so are of little help. The Philippine pieces that I've seen with similar hilts were tapered to a cutting edge evenly on both sides, with even re-ground machetes re-heated so as to have a tempered edge and yet with an uncanny resemblence to the hilts of the Lombok pieces, something that arises time after time between PI and Indonesian bladed weapons and tools, so there doesn't appear to be any clear cut answer. I don't feel that yours is a Chinese reproduction though, even with the scabbard inscribing. Could it be possible that this is a northern woman's knife, reminiscent of the Bagobo knives of the south? Attached Images

7th May 2005, 08:25 PM	#1
Radu Transylvanicus Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: 2008-2010 Bali, 1998-2008 USA Posts: 271	Looks Malayan to me, like a variation of a wedong chopper, pretty new also not older than a few decades ... Is that buddhist monk on the tin sheath suppose to make me believe its from more up north ?

8th May 2005, 10:03 PM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	Thanks Mike for the Lombok suggestion, and to all the others who responded with thoughts. Still somewhat of a mystery. One thing I forgot to mention was the appearance of a hardened edge that is quite wide. I have not etched this blade, but simply polishing it seems to show that the edge is different from the rest of the blade.

8th May 2005, 11:48 PM	#4
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	The European knives I think it most closely resembles in overall outline are leather working or field-butchering (hunters') knives, but how heavy is this blade? If the sheath were absent I think I'd go PI; note the resemblance to Rick's "Jeep" headed sword? I don't know what to make of the sheath....

10th May 2005, 04:12 AM	#6
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	doesn't look to have had been used a lot. India may also be a candidate. Can't find any good pictures of opium knives, maybe someone has a couple to post? here is a link to how a knife like this might have been used. http://www.uwmc.uwc.edu/political_sc...opiumprod.html