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#1 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 1,664
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Gonzalo, no problems. There was nothing wrong about your note, and Vasary is one of the best accepted authors on the subject of Eastern Nomads and their influence on the Balkans in the 12th to 15th centuries.
But we should get back on topic. Manuel, I am afraid the inscription is not in Romanian, but in a Slavic language which is quite similar to Russian. I can only read the last part, which says "and with charriots". I also think I can see the name "Israel" there as well, and I suspect the crowned figure says Pharaoh. Of course, Romanian was influenced by Slavic languages, so the inscription might be in Romanian, though I doubt it. I suspect the fresco represents a scene from the Exodus. It is interesting that the charriots look similar to wagenburgs, which as we know were used by the Bohemians in the army of Vladislav III of Poland at Varna in 1444. It illustrates how artists painted what they were familiar with themselves, and so this fresco is probably a good presentation of armament and costume from the times. After staring at the fresco, I can see a lot of maces and hammers, but the only sword I see is found on a foot soldiers behind the Pharaoh, and it looks curved. Thank you for sharing these pictures, Emanuel. Regards, Teodor |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,242
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Thanks Teodor,
Sucevita is in Romanian Moldova, where Russian influence was strong. I assumed it was still Romanian because at the time the liturgy used the Cyrillic alphabet and Slavonic. I've also seen Romanian written in cyrillic. I have a number of other devotional paintings with scenes from the lives of saints which also depict characters in what seems like period clothes. Perhaps I'll scan those as well. I've looked closer at the fresco and you're right about the lack of swords. To me it looked like the soldiers on the bottom left carried swords, but I can see axe-heads and maces now. All the best, Emanuel Last edited by Emanuel; 21st July 2009 at 02:31 PM. |
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#3 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 48
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Hi gents ,
wow a pretty interesting discussion we have here ![]() Im gonna add some points to your contributions. Just like Teodor and Gonzalo (great posts by the way guys I am learing a lot from you here, as always) I have to mention Vasary’s book, that is a "must-have" when one is interested in the history of those medieval nomadic people that inhabited parts of europe. Emanuel thanks for your exhaustive reply. The splendid picture labelled " Ein Reuter aufs der Walachi" looks very , very (almost exactly) like the "Rac"serb-hussars from the Orsa painting http://www.myarmoury.com/images/feat...c_hussar01.jpg , note the "winged" shield , which Turks called "Rumelian" and westerners "Hungarian" (IIRC, the shields are also represented in Ottoman/German art. Fechtbucher "gladiatora" shows two fencers armed with it , but in a smaller "target-like" scale. The turkish miniature painting of Mohacs Battle also shows Hungarian troops/cavalry armed with such shields as well). As for the other painting (the fresco) , could you determine the author of the piece? I suspect that because of the "cyrilics" it might have been inspired by similar pieces from Muscovy (or the other southern Russian principalities, not sure which one bordered with Romanian Moldova) and Russians were quite fond of wearing Conical helmets , which were by no means only reserved to Turks (AFAIK , central asian "steepe" nomads, such as the various tatar khaganates ; Mamluks and Byzantine troops wore them as well)... anyway just speculating. If you have more scans of some such frescoes please do post them , I would be very interested in seeing them. ![]() Going back to the overall picture, until recently I was somewhat unaware of the military structure of the medieval Balkans. I have always assumed that the military technology/tactics were very similar and somewhat mirrored the armamament and tactics of the "Latins". As it turned out I was (very) wrong. What suprised me was Heath’s osprey book on the Byzantine later period (that covers 13-14 and 15. century). Not only were the "native" Balkan people (of non-nomadic stock) armed in a similar fashion to nomads (composite bow, both sabres and straight swords , lances, shields of various designs etc.) but served for the emperor in units in which they were grouped together with nomads themselves. Whats even more interesting is that the further "subjugation" of Balkans by Ottomans seemed to be so "smooth" because of the fact that the Byzantine military style of troop commanding was very similar to that of Ottoman (parralles can be seen for example in etymology: "ottoman voynuks" - "balkan slavic vojniks" , or "byzantine greek Allagator" - "Turkish Lagator" etc.) AFAIK, The partial "latinization" and western men-at-arms seemed to have been more present in the western parts of balkans (like serbia , that according to Heath responded to Ottoman threat by fielding italian style arms and equipment.) The "Saxons" in Wallachia are an exception indeed. I dont remember however reading much about Saxon cavalry, or men-at-arms. A query at the end: was the sword of Stephen the Great produced by local (moldovian) blacksmiths or was it a saxon/hungarian import? Cheers, Samuel Edit: A note on the topic of similarity betwen Serbs and Vlachs that I have (somewhat) touched upon earlier. A splendid article (sadly) written in Czech http://www.livinghistory.cz/node/28 , that muses about the wagenburg tactics also mentions a piece of writing from late 15th century Order of Vlčkov : „A což byste Rácuov jměli a Vlachuov, té zběři, ješto by se k šikování nehodili, ty pusťte všecky na harc a jednomu poručte rozumnému, aby jimi potiskal nepřátel…“ It is written in old Bohemian and says something in the lines of avoiding in giving a free hand in command of the hired Vlach and Rác (Serbian) horsemen (presumably to counter the turks) because of their behaviour (they are literally named "zběř" , similar to modern Czech "sběř" which means rabble/riffraff; which is hardly suprising as light cavalry was always accussed for lack of morals) and instead to hire someone "reasonable" to command them instead (presumably a countryman I guess). As you can see the passage pretty much treats them as a similar/same style of unit (which mayhap points to the common Balkan/Byzantine military heritage). Last edited by Samik; 21st July 2009 at 06:51 PM. |
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#4 |
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,242
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Hi Samuel,
The shield did bring images of hussars to mind. They certainly look graceful. There is no info on Stefan's sword, AFAIK. Being a princely sword, we can assume a high quality smith and craftsman. Whether from a local or foreign production centre, who knows ![]() It's also impossible to determine the painters of the frescos, but the style is associated with "Ioan the Painter" and his brother "Sofronie from Suceava". The monastery was built in 1581 by Gheorghe Movila. The fresco need not have basis on Russian exampla...rather both Russian and Vlach/Moldovan styles are heavily influenced by Byzantine ones. Slavonic was adopted as the liturgical language upon the conversion of Vlachs to Orthodox Christianity. It was used in most church writings, often along concurrently with Latin. Due to proximity, I imagine it was used more frequently in Moldova. The Oxford Dictionary of Byzantium's entry on Vlachs mentions their presence on Byzantine territory. They subsist on goat and sheep herding, and as mercenaries. The herding aspect, at least, is still part of Romanian mythos and identity. The shepherd in the mountains, armed with axe and staff. Apparently there is uncertainty on whether the reference "Blachoi" (the v and b are interchangeable) refers specifically to Vlachs, or Bulgarians, who shared characteristics and lived in the same area. This attests to the further ethnic mixing that happened in that time. One point of particualr interest to me is the latinization of Dacians/Vlachs. There is no answer to the debate on whether Dacians were latinized by the (very limited) Roman occupation, or during their temporary migration south of the Dabune into Byzantine territory, or even whether they already spoke a form of vulgate latin before Roman conquest. Somehow the latin persisted to the present day despite massive bastardization with slavic, turkish, greek, hungarian, german and french ![]() To get back to the topic at hand though - 15th century Vlach swords - I will scan more paintings tonight. All the best, Emanuel Last edited by Emanuel; 21st July 2009 at 10:38 PM. |
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