Bali keris?

A. G. Maisey · 20th July 2009, 10:47 PM

This is a peculiar keris.

The hilt does appear to originate from Bali, but it is not a traditional style nor motif.

The blade does not have the overall form of a Bali keris, as there are too many waves, the blade angle and proportions do not really fit Bali, the pamor does not look quite right, the garap does not look quite right --- without the handle I might be inclined to think Lombok, but together with the handle I feel that if I had it in my hand I'd be thinking current era Madura.

It is quite possible that the hilt could be a Madura creation as well.

The hilt ring/pendongkok/mendak is a Bugis (generic) form.

Is there a scabbard?

From what I can see in the photo my impression is that I am looking at a dealer's marriage of fairly recent pieces.

Sorry.

Marcokeris · 21st July 2009, 06:01 AM

is possible to see the hit by profile and by back?
Thanks

Ascalon · 21st July 2009, 11:56 AM

Thanks
I bought it on a market very cheaply so I am not disappointed.
It remains pleasant to look.
I'm going to add pictures.
Regards
Emmanuel

Marcokeris · 22nd July 2009, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

is possible to see the hit by profile and by back?
Thanks

not so difference with this Bali hit (...of course only about the motif)

A. G. Maisey · 22nd July 2009, 12:43 PM

Yes Marco, quite similar, but I feel that the key word here is "traditional", by which I mean a motif predating the current era.

Marcokeris · 22nd July 2009, 03:37 PM

For example on pag.30 of Jensen's work krisdisk (Bali section) there is a "traditional" hit with the same haircut....

David · 31st July 2009, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Yes Marco, quite similar, but I feel that the key word here is "traditional", by which I mean a motif predating the current era.

Can you define "current era" Alan? When would you say it begins?

A. G. Maisey · 1st August 2009, 01:22 AM

Yes, good question David.

This is term that I have taken to using, its not one that is is in general widespread usage. To be honest, I am torn between two, or perhaps three or even four points of demarcation.

One point would be from around the mid-1970's, when the keris in Jawa began its revival.

A second point would be after the Japanese occupation of what is now Indonesia , ceased.

A third point would be from the beginning of the 20th century.

The fourth, and perhaps most logical point would be from approximately 1940, when the Second World War caused the disappearance of the old way of life in South East Asia.

I still haven't firmed up on exactly what I think "current era" should mean, but taking the all inclusive view, it must be at least after the beginning of the 20th century.

Indonesians themselves have taken to a fifth point of demarcation, which is the period following the declaration of Indonesian independence:- 17th August 1945.

20th July 2009, 10:47 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	This is a peculiar keris. The hilt does appear to originate from Bali, but it is not a traditional style nor motif. The blade does not have the overall form of a Bali keris, as there are too many waves, the blade angle and proportions do not really fit Bali, the pamor does not look quite right, the garap does not look quite right --- without the handle I might be inclined to think Lombok, but together with the handle I feel that if I had it in my hand I'd be thinking current era Madura. It is quite possible that the hilt could be a Madura creation as well. The hilt ring/pendongkok/mendak is a Bugis (generic) form. Is there a scabbard? From what I can see in the photo my impression is that I am looking at a dealer's marriage of fairly recent pieces. Sorry.

21st July 2009, 06:01 AM	#2
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	is possible to see the hit by profile and by back? Thanks

21st July 2009, 11:56 AM	#3
Ascalon Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: France Posts: 45	Thanks I bought it on a market very cheaply so I am not disappointed. It remains pleasant to look. I'm going to add pictures. Regards Emmanuel

22nd July 2009, 12:43 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Yes Marco, quite similar, but I feel that the key word here is "traditional", by which I mean a motif predating the current era.

22nd July 2009, 03:37 PM	#6
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	For example on pag.30 of Jensen's work krisdisk (Bali section) there is a "traditional" hit with the same haircut....

1st August 2009, 01:22 AM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Yes, good question David. This is term that I have taken to using, its not one that is is in general widespread usage. To be honest, I am torn between two, or perhaps three or even four points of demarcation. One point would be from around the mid-1970's, when the keris in Jawa began its revival. A second point would be after the Japanese occupation of what is now Indonesia , ceased. A third point would be from the beginning of the 20th century. The fourth, and perhaps most logical point would be from approximately 1940, when the Second World War caused the disappearance of the old way of life in South East Asia. I still haven't firmed up on exactly what I think "current era" should mean, but taking the all inclusive view, it must be at least after the beginning of the 20th century. Indonesians themselves have taken to a fifth point of demarcation, which is the period following the declaration of Indonesian independence:- 17th August 1945.