Indian Composite Piece For Comment

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by CourseEight

Thanks fo the replies:

I'd love to see pictures of anything with a similar hilt construction, both in terms of the round pommel and round bolster, and also the unusual attachment of the hand guard. That does appear to be red (and black) laquer or paint on there, but I'll know more when I get it.

As for the blade, I'm keeping fingers crossed about its being wootz, but I'm not getting my hopes too up. Does anyone have examples of nagan-type blades that end with such a tip? Normally you see them tapering, rather than ending in the wide, almost spatulate way that khandas do. Also interesting is that the strap seems to be wiggly as well; never seen that either.

Thanks for your continued interest and observations!

--Radleigh

Hi Radleigh

The paint also got me thinking. There are a reasonable amount of 'painted' (enameled, whatever) Khuds and Dhals that turn up. Certainly cheaper than Koftgari and it'd act as a rustproofing.
Wonder if your hilt was on a steel mace and the hilt was painted to 'disguise' its bronze construction rather than steel?

Regards
Gene

[CourseEight]

Thank you for your observations Gene, and for the picture of the mace. A couple of points:

(1) Since the pommel is rounded, as is the bolster, this wouldeem to imply that you think the shaft of the mace passed through the guard and attached to the pommel. Therefore the handle (gripped part) was in a single piece with the shaft of the mace. In my experience, however, the khanda handles on Indian pieces are generally a seperate piece rivetted onto the shaft/blade. The mace in the picture seems of this type also. Does anyone have any examples of a seperate guard piece, but a single piece shaft/handle?

(2) The paint on the handle looks to me to be accenting the faces and in chevron patterns, so I'm not sure it was ever supposed to cover the whole handle. Also, there are plenty of non-steel (copper, brass, bronze) Indian handles out there, some on quite fine pieces, so I'm not sure anyone would have a reason to hide the fact the handle was brass in the first place.

Thanks for the comments, and the more the merrier!

--Radleigh

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by CourseEight

Thank you for your observations Gene, and for the picture of the mace. A couple of points:

(1) Since the pommel is rounded, as is the bolster, this wouldeem to imply that you think the shaft of the mace passed through the guard and attached to the pommel. Therefore the handle (gripped part) was in a single piece with the shaft of the mace. In my experience, however, the khanda handles on Indian pieces are generally a seperate piece rivetted onto the shaft/blade. The mace in the picture seems of this type also. Does anyone have any examples of a seperate guard piece, but a single piece shaft/handle?

(2) The paint on the handle looks to me to be accenting the faces and in chevron patterns, so I'm not sure it was ever supposed to cover the whole handle. Also, there are plenty of non-steel (copper, brass, bronze) Indian handles out there, some on quite fine pieces, so I'm not sure anyone would have a reason to hide the fact the handle was brass in the first place.

Thanks for the comments, and the more the merrier!

--Radleigh

Hi Radleigh,

1: I also have never seen a Khanda hilt like yours, and the 'through' handle of a mace weapon or similar was the only possibility I could come up with.
You don't think the 'ring' pommel looks like it was made to slip over the end of whatever passed through the guard?
I couldn't find anymore pictures of Khanda handled Gargaz or other similar pieces.
There was at least one on ebay in the last 6 months or so, must be others on the forum with pics.

2: Fair comments, I don't disagree. I'm just musing 'aloud' and throwing ideas out there. I've personally never seen a Bronze Khandar hilt, or for that matter ANY hilt that quite fits this shape.

Regards
Gene

[trajan]

Here are several maces. Most are like one pictured where rod is flattened out and attached to khanda hilt.

One with early style hilt I have has the rod going through and no back spike.

[Jim McDougall]

I've been missing out on this thread, and Gene and David just wanted to note outstanding observations on this hilt!!! I never even thought of these maces and very much enjoying the progression along with Radleigh's also astute observations. It always makes me glad to see the Indian weapons a topic, there is so much yet to learn, and I always do when you guys get going!!!

Trajan, beautiful examples, thank you for showing them here. I know these were processional or bearing type weapons, and the red coloring was I believe key in ceremonial regalia if I recall correctly. Regardless, these things are pretty scary looking, and definitely wouldnt want to be on the wrong end of one.

Thanks so much guys!

All best regards,
Jim

[trajan]

Hi Jim,

Actually the maces pictured are heavy combat worthy weapons of the 16th-18th centrury. I did not picture any of the more ceremonial types as most of them seem to have lighter construction and non-khanda hilts.

matt

[trajan]

I would also note that the long extended bracing resembles that of the ceremonial or dance pata. Pata hilts that have had combat blades replaced with thin flexible ceremonial blades tend to have extra long bracing like this.

Matt