Unusual Kirach For Discussion

Rick · 6th May 2005, 03:49 PM

Hilt shot and construction detail .

Weight without scabbard 2.03 pounds .

Have at it !

Jens Nordlunde · 6th May 2005, 04:26 PM

Rick, you have an unusual kirach, the width if the blade, the very long false edge, with a thick spine of only about 8 inch, it would normally be about 14 inches longer, the reinforced tip is also unusual, although you see it now and again, the marks on the blade are seen before, but where they have been put, gives me a feeling that the meaning is something else than decorative – only I don’t know what it is. The tulwar/basket hilt is seen, but not very often, and I think they stopped using these hilts somewhere around early 19th century. The flower on top of the disc, and the form of the hilt points towards the Sikhs although the feared Maratha warriors in Deccan mostly used these swords; they most probably spread to other areas too. All in all a real fighting sword and a rare kirach, congratulation.

Andrew · 7th May 2005, 02:00 AM

This sword is extraordinary, Rick. Thanks for sharing it with us.

My experience with these weapons does not even approach Jens', but this also strikes me as rare and unusual. The tip is particularly interesting, and not something I've seen on a blade this long. A fearsome weapon!

Jim McDougall · 7th May 2005, 03:25 AM

Andrew,
These markings of what appears to be a sunburst seem very much like similar markings it seems I recall seen on some Cham weapons, or of SEA provenance. While reviewing notes here to see if I can add anything that might associate with anything Indian or European, I am wondering if you, Mark or Ian have similar markings catalogued.

This really is a magnificent and unusual kirach Rick !! Even more so with its clear transitional character that really embodies the diffusion of these weapon forms in India. I agree with Jens that there seem to be quite possible Sikh associations here, and more research will hopefully support that. It has always been interesting that the sacred sword of the Sikhs was of course the khanda, with Hindu baskethilt, while the sword of choice used by them in combat was typically the tulwar. Here we have a hybrid of both. Fascinating!!!

All the best,
Jim

Ferguson · 7th May 2005, 01:16 PM

Rick,
That is a truly magnificent sword. As a newbie, I have no information, but I love it! Looks like it has a very nice damascus pattern. Thanks for sharing this wonderful piece.

Steve Ferguson

Jens Nordlunde · 7th May 2005, 01:33 PM

It is true; the reinforced tip is not seen often. I only have one blade with such a tip – see the picture, and I the former Figiel collection there was a straight chevron blade with such a tip.

Also, on a lot of the kirach’s you see, the blade bend less than this one towards the tip. All in all, this does not point towards, that the owner was one to hide behind the elephants when the battle had started

.

Jens Nordlunde · 7th May 2005, 04:13 PM

I forgot to mention, but many may know it, that especially after the Sepoy mutiny, the English collected thousands and thousands of all kinds of weapons, and the penalty for hiding the weapons was very hard. Some weapons went to museums, but it was few, as I understand it, most of them were cut to pieces and melted down, and some of the steel was used for bridges for roads and railway. Few were allowed to keep their weapons, the Raja’s and Maharaja’s who had helped the English of course, but in many cases the authors speak about their personal weapons which sounds as if their armouries were emptied – and we know that some of them were, few weapons were picked up by ‘collectors’ and the rest of the weapons were sold as old iron.

This of course means, that weapons we to day consider being rare as a type, not necessarily were as rare at the time they were in use.

6th May 2005, 03:49 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Two More Hilt shot and construction detail . Weight without scabbard 2.03 pounds . Have at it ! Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 7th May 2005 at 03:39 PM.

7th May 2005, 01:33 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	It is true; the reinforced tip is not seen often. I only have one blade with such a tip – see the picture, and I the former Figiel collection there was a straight chevron blade with such a tip. Also, on a lot of the kirach’s you see, the blade bend less than this one towards the tip. All in all, this does not point towards, that the owner was one to hide behind the elephants when the battle had started. Attached Images

6th May 2005, 04:26 PM	#2
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Rick, you have an unusual kirach, the width if the blade, the very long false edge, with a thick spine of only about 8 inch, it would normally be about 14 inches longer, the reinforced tip is also unusual, although you see it now and again, the marks on the blade are seen before, but where they have been put, gives me a feeling that the meaning is something else than decorative – only I don’t know what it is. The tulwar/basket hilt is seen, but not very often, and I think they stopped using these hilts somewhere around early 19th century. The flower on top of the disc, and the form of the hilt points towards the Sikhs although the feared Maratha warriors in Deccan mostly used these swords; they most probably spread to other areas too. All in all a real fighting sword and a rare kirach, congratulation.

7th May 2005, 02:00 AM	#3
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	This sword is extraordinary, Rick. Thanks for sharing it with us. My experience with these weapons does not even approach Jens', but this also strikes me as rare and unusual. The tip is particularly interesting, and not something I've seen on a blade this long. A fearsome weapon!

7th May 2005, 03:25 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Andrew, These markings of what appears to be a sunburst seem very much like similar markings it seems I recall seen on some Cham weapons, or of SEA provenance. While reviewing notes here to see if I can add anything that might associate with anything Indian or European, I am wondering if you, Mark or Ian have similar markings catalogued. This really is a magnificent and unusual kirach Rick !! Even more so with its clear transitional character that really embodies the diffusion of these weapon forms in India. I agree with Jens that there seem to be quite possible Sikh associations here, and more research will hopefully support that. It has always been interesting that the sacred sword of the Sikhs was of course the khanda, with Hindu baskethilt, while the sword of choice used by them in combat was typically the tulwar. Here we have a hybrid of both. Fascinating!!! All the best, Jim

7th May 2005, 01:16 PM	#5
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Rick, That is a truly magnificent sword. As a newbie, I have no information, but I love it! Looks like it has a very nice damascus pattern. Thanks for sharing this wonderful piece. Steve Ferguson

7th May 2005, 04:13 PM	#7
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	I forgot to mention, but many may know it, that especially after the Sepoy mutiny, the English collected thousands and thousands of all kinds of weapons, and the penalty for hiding the weapons was very hard. Some weapons went to museums, but it was few, as I understand it, most of them were cut to pieces and melted down, and some of the steel was used for bridges for roads and railway. Few were allowed to keep their weapons, the Raja’s and Maharaja’s who had helped the English of course, but in many cases the authors speak about their personal weapons which sounds as if their armouries were emptied – and we know that some of them were, few weapons were picked up by ‘collectors’ and the rest of the weapons were sold as old iron. This of course means, that weapons we to day consider being rare as a type, not necessarily were as rare at the time they were in use.