Moro Sulu Sultanate Flag with Kris and Spear

Rick · 13th July 2009, 03:26 AM

Very nice !!

Robert · 13th July 2009, 04:37 AM

Great flag Jose!!

What a rare find and congratulations on being able to score it for your collection. Could you possibly post a picture or two of the opposite side as I would very much like to see a little more detail of how the sword and spear inserts were sewn in place?

Robert

migueldiaz · 13th July 2009, 05:58 AM

Nice flag

What do the five stars represent?

There's a lot of Sulu flags in this website, for comparison purposes.

Robert · 13th July 2009, 06:41 AM

Migueldiaz,
The website you have linked in your post states what I have heard before about the stars, that they represent the five territories of the Sultanate of Sulu. I have no idea if this is correct or not.

Robert

migueldiaz · 13th July 2009, 06:56 AM

Thanks Robert!

Now there's a certain "Ron Z" mentioned in one of the webpages there, as being the resource person. Maybe somebody knows him?

The website says he owns the kris below:

Battara · 13th July 2009, 11:22 PM

Thank you - as far as the other side is concerned, I will try to get a picture of the other side.

As far as Ron Z is concerned, he is Spunger. However, the story if the 5 stars being the provinces of the Sulu Sultanate is in another source as well. I go with this story as well.

Another note, most of the flags like this have straight kris, this one has a wavy bladed kris. The only one of this type of flag I have seen so far.

David · 14th July 2009, 12:28 AM

Nice flag José, and as you point out, even rarer with the wavy kris. Thanks for the flag link Miguel. It is interesting to look at the pre-American colony flags. Obviously these ones with the field of stars is somewhat based on the American flag which intrigues me since the Americans were obviously the enemy of the Moros. Why copy your enemy's flag?

migueldiaz · 15th July 2009, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

However, the story if the 5 stars being the provinces of the Sulu Sultanate is in another source as well. I go with this story as well.

Thanks for the comment.

On a lighter note, I don't think that my imagined scenario below would be far-fetched

Battara · 18th July 2009, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

Great flag Jose!!

What a rare find and congratulations on being able to score it for your collection. Could you possibly post a picture or two of the opposite side as I would very much like to see a little more detail of how the sword and spear inserts were sewn in place?

Robert

Robert here are finally some pictures of the other side to show how it was sown in. The flag designs were cut out and the pieces sown on top of one side.

Thank you folks for your kind words and enjoy:

Robert · 19th July 2009, 06:57 AM

Jose,
Thank you very much for posting the close-ups of how the white designs were applied to the red back-ground. By looking at the pictures first posted and comparing them to the ones just now posted am I correct in assuming that the designs were applied to one side only and then on the opposite side the red back-ground was cut away to show them? Again, congratulations on being able to acquire this wonderful piece of history and thank you for posting the new pictures.

Robert

Battara · 19th July 2009, 06:28 PM

Yes Robert you are correct in your observations. In some ways this makes the flag more delicate. In fact I am afraid of hanging it even in museum fashion for fear of ripping it.

Robert · 19th July 2009, 06:39 PM

Jose,
Not knowing the dimensions makes it hard to make suggestions on how to best store or display an item like this. If the size is not too great I think that I would have the cloth stabilized, treated to protect it from bugs, mold and mildew and then put in between two panes of glass in a frame so it could be viewed from both sides.

Robert

Rick · 19th July 2009, 07:28 PM

With a mat to keep the cloth from being 'pinched' .

13th July 2009, 06:56 AM	#5
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	Thanks Robert! Now there's a certain "Ron Z" mentioned in one of the webpages there, as being the resource person. Maybe somebody knows him? The website says he owns the kris below: Attached Images

13th July 2009, 03:26 AM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	Very nice !!

13th July 2009, 04:37 AM	#2
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Great flag Jose!! What a rare find and congratulations on being able to score it for your collection. Could you possibly post a picture or two of the opposite side as I would very much like to see a little more detail of how the sword and spear inserts were sewn in place? Robert

13th July 2009, 05:58 AM	#3
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	Nice flag What do the five stars represent? There's a lot of Sulu flags in this website, for comparison purposes.

13th July 2009, 06:41 AM	#4
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Migueldiaz, The website you have linked in your post states what I have heard before about the stars, that they represent the five territories of the Sultanate of Sulu. I have no idea if this is correct or not. Robert

13th July 2009, 11:22 PM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,310	Thank you - as far as the other side is concerned, I will try to get a picture of the other side. As far as Ron Z is concerned, he is Spunger. However, the story if the 5 stars being the provinces of the Sulu Sultanate is in another source as well. I go with this story as well. Another note, most of the flags like this have straight kris, this one has a wavy bladed kris. The only one of this type of flag I have seen so far.

14th July 2009, 12:28 AM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,229	Nice flag José, and as you point out, even rarer with the wavy kris. Thanks for the flag link Miguel. It is interesting to look at the pre-American colony flags. Obviously these ones with the field of stars is somewhat based on the American flag which intrigues me since the Americans were obviously the enemy of the Moros. Why copy your enemy's flag?

19th July 2009, 06:57 AM	#10
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Jose, Thank you very much for posting the close-ups of how the white designs were applied to the red back-ground. By looking at the pictures first posted and comparing them to the ones just now posted am I correct in assuming that the designs were applied to one side only and then on the opposite side the red back-ground was cut away to show them? Again, congratulations on being able to acquire this wonderful piece of history and thank you for posting the new pictures. Robert

19th July 2009, 06:28 PM	#11
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,310	Yes Robert you are correct in your observations. In some ways this makes the flag more delicate. In fact I am afraid of hanging it even in museum fashion for fear of ripping it.

19th July 2009, 06:39 PM	#12
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Jose, Not knowing the dimensions makes it hard to make suggestions on how to best store or display an item like this. If the size is not too great I think that I would have the cloth stabilized, treated to protect it from bugs, mold and mildew and then put in between two panes of glass in a frame so it could be viewed from both sides. Robert

19th July 2009, 07:28 PM	#13
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	With a mat to keep the cloth from being 'pinched' .