Armor breastplate for coments

fernando · 10th July 2009, 06:05 PM

Hi David,
The diagrams are excelent and self explanatory.
I just wasn't swallowing the combination trident vs cuirass in the same scenary. I would also expect that trident perforations would leave an angular mark, not roundish. But that was only my reflex reaction, not necessarily an everlasting one.
I had a feeling you would react

; not with the sketches, which are super, but with a link showing period soldiers handling a trident. This is actually my main problem with this hipothesis.
My 'default' inferrement is that these marks would have been made to hold an insignia or a device.
Someone has already sugested this could be the marks from the riveting of a joust lance rest, for a left handed guy. But then again i think the holes set would have a different format, and also this breast plate looks more like a warrior than a tilt apparatus ... says i, within my ignorance

.
Yours truly.
Fernando

katana · 10th July 2009, 06:27 PM

Hi Fernando,
perhaps not necessarilly a 'trident' but a trident 'headed' polearm. Millitary forks were a popular form, commonly two pronged ...but not all were. Usually used against horsemen but also foot soldiers.

The trouble is .....googling 'trident and weapon' usually brings up the nuclear missile ...and I suspect the armour would be little protection against such a weapon

Regards David

.

katana · 12th July 2009, 09:15 PM

Hi Fernando,
casually browsing the web ....I came across this picture of a magazine....dated circa 1850 .....entitled Bornean weapons.

The Spanish were in Borneo, I believe, late 16th to the 19th century.....notice one of the spearheads

Regards David

fernando · 12th July 2009, 09:48 PM

David, old chum

Are those Bornean weapons from the XVII century?

.
Next thing you show me will be the native who used that trident spear to perforate the Spaniard who had this breastplate on.
Just give me a name, and i'll make him pay for the repairs

.
That was nice of you, young lad

.
Fernando, AKA pouco canhão

.

katana · 13th July 2009, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

David, old chum

Are those Bornean weapons from the XVII century?

.
Next thing you show me will be the native who used that trident spear to perforate the Spaniard who had this breastplate on.
Just give me a name, and i'll make him pay for the repairs
That was nice of you, young lad

.
Fernando, AKA pouco canhão

.

Hi Fernando

,
I would imagine that the spears shown would have been available in the XVII Century.......but not certain. So I have asked some people whom may know ........
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...6975#post86975

"Young Lad" ..... I wish

..... pouco canhão

All the best

David

fernando · 14th July 2009, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

... So I have ask some people whom may know ...

Fantastic

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

... "Young Lad" ..... I wish

...

Allright, then ... "Old chum"

.

Fernando

katana · 18th July 2009, 06:26 PM

Hi Fernando,
no luck on the ethnographic forum

. Found a picture of a Burmese Trident, and very nice it is too. Obviously the prong cross section is not round but is dated 18th C.

The Sai,
the 3 pronged dagger/defensive weapon is almost a hand held trident ....interestingly it is suggested it originated in Indonesia...or thereabouts. The trident as a spearhead or hand held 'implement' makes perfect sense for the island communities where fishing is so important. Afterall medievel farm implements were mounted on shafts and used in battle.

".........The sai is known to have been used in other parts of Asia before its arrival on Okinawa, such as India, China, Indonesia, Siam and Malaysia. Early evidence suggests Indonesia or the neighbouring area as the sai's point of origin. In Malay the sai is known as a tekpi or Indonesia language as chabang (also spelled cabang or tjabang, meaning branch) and is thought to derive from the Indian trishula. The chabang quickly spread through the rest of Indo-China and may have reached Okinawa from one or more of these places simultaneously........."

Regards David

celtan · 13th July 2009, 01:07 AM

: )

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

Hi Fernando,

The trouble is .....googling 'trident and weapon' usually brings up the nuclear missile ...and I suspect the armour would be little protection against such a weapon

.

10th July 2009, 06:27 PM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Fernando, perhaps not necessarilly a 'trident' but a trident 'headed' polearm. Millitary forks were a popular form, commonly two pronged ...but not all were. Usually used against horsemen but also foot soldiers. The trouble is .....googling 'trident and weapon' usually brings up the nuclear missile ...and I suspect the armour would be little protection against such a weapon Regards David . Attached Images

12th July 2009, 09:15 PM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Fernando, casually browsing the web ....I came across this picture of a magazine....dated circa 1850 .....entitled Bornean weapons. The Spanish were in Borneo, I believe, late 16th to the 19th century.....notice one of the spearheads Regards David Attached Images

18th July 2009, 06:26 PM	#7
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Fernando, no luck on the ethnographic forum . Found a picture of a Burmese Trident, and very nice it is too. Obviously the prong cross section is not round but is dated 18th C. The Sai, the 3 pronged dagger/defensive weapon is almost a hand held trident ....interestingly it is suggested it originated in Indonesia...or thereabouts. The trident as a spearhead or hand held 'implement' makes perfect sense for the island communities where fishing is so important. Afterall medievel farm implements were mounted on shafts and used in battle. ".........The sai is known to have been used in other parts of Asia before its arrival on Okinawa, such as India, China, Indonesia, Siam and Malaysia. Early evidence suggests Indonesia or the neighbouring area as the sai's point of origin. In Malay the sai is known as a tekpi or Indonesia language as chabang (also spelled cabang or tjabang, meaning branch) and is thought to derive from the Indian trishula. The chabang quickly spread through the rest of Indo-China and may have reached Okinawa from one or more of these places simultaneously........." Regards David Attached Images

10th July 2009, 06:05 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi David, The diagrams are excelent and self explanatory. I just wasn't swallowing the combination trident vs cuirass in the same scenary. I would also expect that trident perforations would leave an angular mark, not roundish. But that was only my reflex reaction, not necessarily an everlasting one. I had a feeling you would react ; not with the sketches, which are super, but with a link showing period soldiers handling a trident. This is actually my main problem with this hipothesis. My 'default' inferrement is that these marks would have been made to hold an insignia or a device. Someone has already sugested this could be the marks from the riveting of a joust lance rest, for a left handed guy. But then again i think the holes set would have a different format, and also this breast plate looks more like a warrior than a tilt apparatus ... says i, within my ignorance . Yours truly. Fernando

12th July 2009, 09:48 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	David, old chum Are those Bornean weapons from the XVII century? . Next thing you show me will be the native who used that trident spear to perforate the Spaniard who had this breastplate on. Just give me a name, and i'll make him pay for the repairs . That was nice of you, young lad . Fernando, AKA pouco canhão .