Dha, dharb?? Regional ID, age??

Mark · 14th December 2004, 01:35 PM

I was going to suggest specifically Shan states in Burma, too. I have always identified the use of ray skin and this kind of simple, three-part handle with Shan swords. That is an interesting point about the relative lengths of the two tips -- I learn something new about dha every day.

Blades in Northern Burma were widely traded, and in Shan culture blacksmithing was distained as a low-class occupation (silver-smithing was the work of nobles, in their view), and better Kachin smiths made a variety of blade shapes to suit their clients. Bearing in mind that the Kachin and Shan "territories" largely overlapped, with the Kachin living in the highlands and practicing dry rice cultivation and the Shan occupying the upland river valleys and practicing wet rice cultivation. This intimate contact between the groups is probably the reason that you see a rather typical Kachin blade design with a rather typical Shan handle on this example.

Mark · 14th December 2004, 01:39 PM

I was just looking at my notes of Dan's early post about the Thai names of various tip shapes. I have noted that the concave tip with even points is hua khong, and the tip with a backward-angled edge (like a daiao) is hua tat or hua chuey. Am I mixed up? And is there a separate term for the concave tip with uneven points?

wilked aka Khun Deng · 14th December 2004, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Bowditch

I was just looking at my notes of Dan's early post about the Thai names of various tip shapes. I have noted that the concave tip with even points is hua khong, and the tip with a backward-angled edge (like a daiao) is hua tat or hua chuey. Am I mixed up? And is there a separate term for the concave tip with uneven points?

I edited that post after I returned from my second trip to Aranyik to clarify it now reads "hua tat khong". So in answer to your question the term would be the same. Hua tat literally translates as "head cut-off" and could refer to a square, concave or angled cut. Hua tat khong is "head cut-off curved" and could refer to either even points on the concave or either one being elongated. Hua chuey is "head angled" and as mentioned above it can also be refered to as hua tat.

RhysMichael · 14th December 2004, 03:36 PM

A very nice well made sword kino. Congratualations. I actually turned down several of these when I first started collecting dha ( calling myself a dummy ) as I was not attracted to the tip style. Then I got my first one and since then I have found that these blades are often some of the better made blades. I do not know if anyone else has had the same experience . Its not uncommon for a blade such as yours to have hardened inserted edges, active forging patterns or differential hardening. Thanks for sharing the pictures with us

dennee · 14th December 2004, 03:38 PM

Perhaps we might be hasty about assigning different origins to dhas based on the relative projection of the tips--at least without looking at a very large sample and considering their age too.

The older example posted by Khun Deng, for instance, has less of a projection at the edge than the spine, but it looks like a blade that has been used and resharpened over time. Since it is the edge and not the spine that is sharpened, the point would have a tendency to get shorter as material is removed (and perhaps rounder as in that example), but the spine would presumably remain more or less intact, saving the occasional ding.

14th December 2004, 01:39 PM	#2
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Dha tip nomenclature I was just looking at my notes of Dan's early post about the Thai names of various tip shapes. I have noted that the concave tip with even points is hua khong, and the tip with a backward-angled edge (like a daiao) is hua tat or hua chuey. Am I mixed up? And is there a separate term for the concave tip with uneven points?

14th December 2004, 01:35 PM	#1
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	I was going to suggest specifically Shan states in Burma, too. I have always identified the use of ray skin and this kind of simple, three-part handle with Shan swords. That is an interesting point about the relative lengths of the two tips -- I learn something new about dha every day. Blades in Northern Burma were widely traded, and in Shan culture blacksmithing was distained as a low-class occupation (silver-smithing was the work of nobles, in their view), and better Kachin smiths made a variety of blade shapes to suit their clients. Bearing in mind that the Kachin and Shan "territories" largely overlapped, with the Kachin living in the highlands and practicing dry rice cultivation and the Shan occupying the upland river valleys and practicing wet rice cultivation. This intimate contact between the groups is probably the reason that you see a rather typical Kachin blade design with a rather typical Shan handle on this example.

14th December 2004, 03:36 PM	#4
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	A very nice well made sword kino. Congratualations. I actually turned down several of these when I first started collecting dha ( calling myself a dummy ) as I was not attracted to the tip style. Then I got my first one and since then I have found that these blades are often some of the better made blades. I do not know if anyone else has had the same experience . Its not uncommon for a blade such as yours to have hardened inserted edges, active forging patterns or differential hardening. Thanks for sharing the pictures with us

14th December 2004, 03:38 PM	#5
dennee Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: College Park, MD Posts: 186	Perhaps we might be hasty about assigning different origins to dhas based on the relative projection of the tips--at least without looking at a very large sample and considering their age too. The older example posted by Khun Deng, for instance, has less of a projection at the edge than the spine, but it looks like a blade that has been used and resharpened over time. Since it is the edge and not the spine that is sharpened, the point would have a tendency to get shorter as material is removed (and perhaps rounder as in that example), but the spine would presumably remain more or less intact, saving the occasional ding.