Kebo Lajer with Kul buntet - opinions?

Sajen · 28th June 2009, 05:10 PM

Hello Erik,

a very nice keris indeed. That the gold pieces a part of the foring process I can't believe really, think about the forging temperature.

sajen

David · 28th June 2009, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Erik,

a very nice keris indeed. That the gold pieces a part of the foring process I can't believe really, think about the forging temperature.

sajen

I would have to agree there. The gold was probably added after forging. Nice blade and sheath. I happen to like kebo keris very much and have a few of them. I also have a couple with pamor kul buntet which seems to occur with some regularity with this dhapur.
I would say that if the sheath is old it is not that it has been well kept, but rather that it has been re-finished.

erikscollectables · 28th June 2009, 07:28 PM

Well I can imagine the gold melt away during the actual forging.
On the other hand the gold specs do not look like they have been added afterwards. No idea how this works.

Regards, Erik

Jonno · 14th July 2009, 11:29 AM

Can anyone tell me the meaning of the small gold dots in lower part?

Best regards,
John

David · 14th July 2009, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonno

Can anyone tell me the meaning of the small gold dots in lower part?

Best regards,
John

Welcome to the forum John. I think Sajen is probably correct. The gold dots probably do not have any meaning on their own, they are probably just residual of gold work that was once on the blade.

A. G. Maisey · 14th July 2009, 11:52 PM

Erik, I have a few questions about these gold specks:-

1) have they been tested and confirmed as being gold?

2) if they have been tested, what carat gold are they? ( this is important as it could give an indication of originality)

3) is there any gold in the lower parts of the blade surface, or is it confined to high points on the blade?

4) is there gold on both sides of the blade ?

5) has an examination under high magnification been carried out to attempt to determine how these gold specks are fixed to the blade?

6) do we have any provenance? (by this I mean has this keris come directly from Indonesia, or has it been in a western culture for some period of time?)

7) the blade stain appears to be quite fresh; do we know where this was done, and how long ago?

The yellowish specks that I can see do not appear to be in a place or pattern that would indicate residual kinatah work, additionally the blade form (dhapur) is one that is very, very seldom found with kinatah work.If a conscientious examination were to be carried out some plausible explanation for these specks may be able to be proposed, but in the absence of such examination all we can do is guess.

David · 15th July 2009, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

The yellowish specks that I can see do not appear to be in a place or pattern that would indicate residual kinatah work, additionally the blade form (dhapur) is one that is very, very seldom found with kinatah work.

This occurred to me, but i couldn't think how else it might appear in this form. And you are certainly right that this dhapur is rarely gets kinatah. Can't say i have ever seen it.

Sajen · 14th July 2009, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erikscollectables

Well I can imagine the gold melt away during the actual forging.
On the other hand the gold specs do not look like they have been added afterwards. No idea how this works.

Regards, Erik

Hello Erik,

one reason why there are golden spots at the blade may be that this keris have had gold somewhere originally.
I have a Sumatra keris which have had a gold covering in up from the ganja and also in the front from ganja and at the gandik. When I get this keris the blade also have had some gold spots at the blade. After a warangan you can see only a small piece of gold between ganja and blade in the gandik part. This gold spots maybe have been there from opened gold film and abrasive wear from extraction the blade from sheat. I try to take a picture from this.

sajen

ganjawulung · 14th July 2009, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I would say that if the sheath is old it is not that it has been well kept, but rather that it has been re-finished.

The same opinion with you, David. But at least, the warangka's wood is of good "trembalo" wood, with good chatoyancy too in gandar part...

GANJAWULUNG

28th June 2009, 05:10 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,212	Hello Erik, a very nice keris indeed. That the gold pieces a part of the foring process I can't believe really, think about the forging temperature. sajen

28th June 2009, 07:28 PM	#3
erikscollectables Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 318	Well I can imagine the gold melt away during the actual forging. On the other hand the gold specs do not look like they have been added afterwards. No idea how this works. Regards, Erik

14th July 2009, 11:29 AM	#4
Jonno Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 51	Can anyone tell me the meaning of the small gold dots in lower part? Best regards, John

14th July 2009, 11:52 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Erik, I have a few questions about these gold specks:- 1) have they been tested and confirmed as being gold? 2) if they have been tested, what carat gold are they? ( this is important as it could give an indication of originality) 3) is there any gold in the lower parts of the blade surface, or is it confined to high points on the blade? 4) is there gold on both sides of the blade ? 5) has an examination under high magnification been carried out to attempt to determine how these gold specks are fixed to the blade? 6) do we have any provenance? (by this I mean has this keris come directly from Indonesia, or has it been in a western culture for some period of time?) 7) the blade stain appears to be quite fresh; do we know where this was done, and how long ago? The yellowish specks that I can see do not appear to be in a place or pattern that would indicate residual kinatah work, additionally the blade form (dhapur) is one that is very, very seldom found with kinatah work.If a conscientious examination were to be carried out some plausible explanation for these specks may be able to be proposed, but in the absence of such examination all we can do is guess.