Interesting Spanish Canary Islands Punal

celtan · 27th June 2009, 02:23 AM

Nicely put, though I would add that such a grip emphasizes the use of the point, so it is not really applicable to a knife primarily intended to cut.

Very true, that what characterizes a puñal. And yet, it is still generally considered a cuchillo, or knife.

I am not sure about current Spanish colloquialisms (the old ones are largely forgotten or of uncertain meaning due to the vide spread illiteracy that persisted until WWII ) but in South America, a "cuchilla" is applied to any broad fixed blade. But the folks who use them are not all that concerned with correct terminology and cuchillo/cuchilla are often used synonimously.

Castillian / Spanish is differently used in America. (Even in Spain itself, the usage varies between regions). In Mexico, often times they call it Mexican instead of Spanish, and it can prove very difficult to understand for a Spanish national, since words and phrases from the local American tribes are often mixed with the former. Sometimes, European Spanish words may actually have the opossite meaning elsewhere.

I certainly agree with you on this one. Generally daggers were intended as companion weapons an were often lavishly decorated, but even the simpler ones had a certain gracefulness about them, albeit a deadly one.

Cheers
Chris

Yep, and they are also easier to exhibit and store, compared to pikes, montantes and fusiles. : )

I must confess a certain predilection gor the fabled main gauches...

: )

Salud y Fortuna

Manolo

Chris Evans · 27th June 2009, 02:54 AM

Hi Manolo,

Very nice daggers. The one on the left is a fencing one, not sure about the one on the right as it is not clear from the photo, but does it have a ring on the side of the quillon?

Could I trouble you for their weight and blade length and any signs of of the edges having been sharpened?

Cheers
Chris

celtan · 27th June 2009, 03:43 AM

Both have rings. The "prettier" one with the gorgeous multifullered perforated blade, is probably italian or spanish. It has replacement carved black wood (ebony?) hilt and pommel These were probably repaired in the late 18th C. (as per previous advice of Norman, IIRC.)

Right: W 6.1 oz CG 1 cm caudally of crossguard. TL ~12.5" BL 8.25" Multifullered perforated blade.

Left: W 11.3 oz CG at crossguard's table TL 16" BL ~12" Diamond CC blade. Turkheads and helicoidal hilt with wire grip.

No signs evident of having been sharpened.

They took me back about $2K ea. 13 yrs. ago. But I enjoy owning them very much, probably even more than anything else in my collection...

Best regards

Manolo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

Hi Manolo,

Very nice daggers. The one on the left is a fencing one, not sure about the one on the right as it is not clear from the photo, but does it have a ring on the side of the quillon?

Could I trouble you for their weight and blade length and any signs of of the edges having been sharpened?

Cheers
Chris

Chris Evans · 27th June 2009, 03:59 AM

Hi Manolo,

Many thanks for those specs - And I am green with envy, they are magnificent.

Cheers
Chris

celtan · 27th June 2009, 04:03 AM

You are most welcome, and thanks for the kind words!

: )

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

Hi Manolo,

Many thanks for those specs - And I am green with envy, they are magnificent.

Cheers
Chris

Atlantia · 12th July 2009, 04:40 PM

OOh whadayaknow, the thread went on and I didn't realise!!

Hi Guys, Hola Manolo,

So, I haven't altered these 'grip disks' yet, still open to the idea if we decide its definately needed.
Below is a picture of my Canary 'Knaife' alongside the rather larger Albacete 'Punal'.

If you have a look at the offical gran-canaria website www.grancanaria.com there is a lovely picture of a pile of these cute little knives and some excellent information on them:

'It is known by its English name, knife, showing that its appearance could be related to the presence of the English in the Canary Islands.

The Canary Islands knife, a fundamental part of the household utensils of the rural dwellers of Gran Canaria, is exclusive to this island, as its production did not take hold in the rest of the islands. The craftsmen who make the knives are involved in the forging and smithy work, although some of them specialise in the making of the handle, leaving the blade for the smiths.

The Canary Island knife makers, unlike knife makers in other parts of Spain who provide society with all the cutting tools necessary in the kitchen or for work, only make one item, known as the Canary Islands knife. These days the knives are usually made for a clientele who use them for decoration, with new designs being produced such as letter-openers, earrings and pendants in order to increase the commercial offer.

The Canary Islands knife is one of the few items of craftwork which fills rural people with pride simply by possessing one. Ownership is maintained over time within the family, as it is passed on from father to son. It is an indispensable work tool in the countryside, as it is used by farmers to cut grass and sticks, for grafting trees and in all the tasks related to banana cropping; shepherds use it to cut agave leaves and as a scalpel when bleeding animals. Neither can it be forgotten that the knife has been used on many occasions as a weapon for defense, and that many men state the “going about without a knife is like going about naked”.

The craft of the knife maker is exclusively masculine. The blades are made by a smith, the handles are mounted by a knife maker and the traditional user was a man. Women never use or even own a Canary Islands knife, even though many of their domestic activities require cutting utensils. The knife, apart from its utilitarian value, acts as a symbol of the masculinity of the one who carries it.

The transmission of the craft is patrilineal and in all cases is strictly masculine. Sons of smiths are the ones who usually tend towards knife making. The techniques require some learning, and are usually very specific and laborious.

The working process is as follows:

The horn is cut into circles of different thickness and diameter, and these are then pierced in the centre to be set into the tang of the knife blade. Everything is held together at the two ends by metal tips. Incisions are made in the circles of horn from different angles, and these are filled with pieces of metal of different colours. The work is finished off by polishing the blade.

The working technique for marquetry, which consists of filling wooden objects with small pieces of precious materials to make geometric shapes and bright colours, is reminiscent of the technique for the making of the handles of the Canary Islands knives.

The main centres where the Canary Islands knives are made are in Guía, Gáldar and Telde.'

Gonzalo G · 22nd July 2009, 11:16 PM

Please let me make some precisions:

1.- In Mexico the spanish is called ´spanish, or instead. ´´castilian´. Which is not an obstacle to some ignorant people, who could call it ´mexican´, though in my life I have only have heard some children using the word is this sense. But it must be stated that ´mexican´, applied to a language, usually means ´meshica´, or nahuatl, which is the language spoken by the old meshican or aztec. Hence the name ´Mexico´, the place of the meshica.

2.- The differences among those weapons or tools, are not a matter of frivolous elitism, or aesthetics, but instead, come from their morphology.

3.- The Dictionary of the Royal Academy of the Language, which is a venerable spanish (and I mean, not mexican) institution which establishes the correct use of the spanish languaje in all the spoken spanish language countries of the world, has very clear definitions about those items.

4.- Puñal: a very short edged weapon designed to wound with the point. The explanations given by Chris are a good addition to this definition.
Daga (dagger): Edged weapon with guards to defend in the fight, with two, three or four edges.
Cuchilla: Tool made with a wide blade of steel, one edged and with a handle (not a folding knife).
Cuchillo (knife): Tool, one edged, used to cut made with a blade and a handle.

As you see, the dagger is glorified because it was a more sophisticated weapon with more capacity for embellisment, but it was used equally by gentleman, low soldiers, ruffians or bandits. The humble cuchilla and cuchillo were more tools than weapons in the hands of workers, and the puñal was a weapon in the hands of ladies or assessins, as the daggers also could be in their moment. The dicionary mentions that the dagger is a short weapon, but it must be compared in relation with the swords, and not in relation with the knives or the puñales, since there are very long dagger main gauche.

I agree completely with Chris in his definitions. The puñal criollo is an exception, and it shouldn´t be properly called ´puñal´.

Chris et al: you can check the Diccionario de la Real Academia de la Lengua Espñalola online. If needed, use a translator online. I cannot imagine a more higher authority on this matters, though it is not perfect.
Regards

Gonzalo

27th June 2009, 02:23 AM	#1
celtan Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: PR, USA Posts: 679	Nicely put, though I would add that such a grip emphasizes the use of the point, so it is not really applicable to a knife primarily intended to cut. Very true, that what characterizes a puñal. And yet, it is still generally considered a cuchillo, or knife. I am not sure about current Spanish colloquialisms (the old ones are largely forgotten or of uncertain meaning due to the vide spread illiteracy that persisted until WWII ) but in South America, a "cuchilla" is applied to any broad fixed blade. But the folks who use them are not all that concerned with correct terminology and cuchillo/cuchilla are often used synonimously. Castillian / Spanish is differently used in America. (Even in Spain itself, the usage varies between regions). In Mexico, often times they call it Mexican instead of Spanish, and it can prove very difficult to understand for a Spanish national, since words and phrases from the local American tribes are often mixed with the former. Sometimes, European Spanish words may actually have the opossite meaning elsewhere. I certainly agree with you on this one. Generally daggers were intended as companion weapons an were often lavishly decorated, but even the simpler ones had a certain gracefulness about them, albeit a deadly one. Cheers Chris Yep, and they are also easier to exhibit and store, compared to pikes, montantes and fusiles. : ) I must confess a certain predilection gor the fabled main gauches... : ) Salud y Fortuna Manolo Last edited by celtan; 27th June 2009 at 02:18 PM.

12th July 2009, 04:40 PM	#6
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	OOh whadayaknow, the thread went on and I didn't realise!! Hi Guys, Hola Manolo, So, I haven't altered these 'grip disks' yet, still open to the idea if we decide its definately needed. Below is a picture of my Canary 'Knaife' alongside the rather larger Albacete 'Punal'. If you have a look at the offical gran-canaria website www.grancanaria.com there is a lovely picture of a pile of these cute little knives and some excellent information on them: 'It is known by its English name, knife, showing that its appearance could be related to the presence of the English in the Canary Islands. The Canary Islands knife, a fundamental part of the household utensils of the rural dwellers of Gran Canaria, is exclusive to this island, as its production did not take hold in the rest of the islands. The craftsmen who make the knives are involved in the forging and smithy work, although some of them specialise in the making of the handle, leaving the blade for the smiths. The Canary Island knife makers, unlike knife makers in other parts of Spain who provide society with all the cutting tools necessary in the kitchen or for work, only make one item, known as the Canary Islands knife. These days the knives are usually made for a clientele who use them for decoration, with new designs being produced such as letter-openers, earrings and pendants in order to increase the commercial offer. The Canary Islands knife is one of the few items of craftwork which fills rural people with pride simply by possessing one. Ownership is maintained over time within the family, as it is passed on from father to son. It is an indispensable work tool in the countryside, as it is used by farmers to cut grass and sticks, for grafting trees and in all the tasks related to banana cropping; shepherds use it to cut agave leaves and as a scalpel when bleeding animals. Neither can it be forgotten that the knife has been used on many occasions as a weapon for defense, and that many men state the “going about without a knife is like going about naked”. The craft of the knife maker is exclusively masculine. The blades are made by a smith, the handles are mounted by a knife maker and the traditional user was a man. Women never use or even own a Canary Islands knife, even though many of their domestic activities require cutting utensils. The knife, apart from its utilitarian value, acts as a symbol of the masculinity of the one who carries it. The transmission of the craft is patrilineal and in all cases is strictly masculine. Sons of smiths are the ones who usually tend towards knife making. The techniques require some learning, and are usually very specific and laborious. The working process is as follows: The horn is cut into circles of different thickness and diameter, and these are then pierced in the centre to be set into the tang of the knife blade. Everything is held together at the two ends by metal tips. Incisions are made in the circles of horn from different angles, and these are filled with pieces of metal of different colours. The work is finished off by polishing the blade. The working technique for marquetry, which consists of filling wooden objects with small pieces of precious materials to make geometric shapes and bright colours, is reminiscent of the technique for the making of the handles of the Canary Islands knives. The main centres where the Canary Islands knives are made are in Guía, Gáldar and Telde.' Last edited by Atlantia; 12th July 2009 at 06:30 PM.

27th June 2009, 02:54 AM	#2
Chris Evans Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 685	Hi Manolo, Very nice daggers. The one on the left is a fencing one, not sure about the one on the right as it is not clear from the photo, but does it have a ring on the side of the quillon? Could I trouble you for their weight and blade length and any signs of of the edges having been sharpened? Cheers Chris

27th June 2009, 03:59 AM	#4
Chris Evans Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 685	Hi Manolo, Many thanks for those specs - And I am green with envy, they are magnificent. Cheers Chris

22nd July 2009, 11:16 PM	#7
Gonzalo G Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nothern Mexico Posts: 458	Please let me make some precisions: 1.- In Mexico the spanish is called ´spanish, or instead. ´´castilian´. Which is not an obstacle to some ignorant people, who could call it ´mexican´, though in my life I have only have heard some children using the word is this sense. But it must be stated that ´mexican´, applied to a language, usually means ´meshica´, or nahuatl, which is the language spoken by the old meshican or aztec. Hence the name ´Mexico´, the place of the meshica. 2.- The differences among those weapons or tools, are not a matter of frivolous elitism, or aesthetics, but instead, come from their morphology. 3.- The Dictionary of the Royal Academy of the Language, which is a venerable spanish (and I mean, not mexican) institution which establishes the correct use of the spanish languaje in all the spoken spanish language countries of the world, has very clear definitions about those items. 4.- Puñal: a very short edged weapon designed to wound with the point. The explanations given by Chris are a good addition to this definition. Daga (dagger): Edged weapon with guards to defend in the fight, with two, three or four edges. Cuchilla: Tool made with a wide blade of steel, one edged and with a handle (not a folding knife). Cuchillo (knife): Tool, one edged, used to cut made with a blade and a handle. As you see, the dagger is glorified because it was a more sophisticated weapon with more capacity for embellisment, but it was used equally by gentleman, low soldiers, ruffians or bandits. The humble cuchilla and cuchillo were more tools than weapons in the hands of workers, and the puñal was a weapon in the hands of ladies or assessins, as the daggers also could be in their moment. The dicionary mentions that the dagger is a short weapon, but it must be compared in relation with the swords, and not in relation with the knives or the puñales, since there are very long dagger main gauche. I agree completely with Chris in his definitions. The puñal criollo is an exception, and it shouldn´t be properly called ´puñal´. Chris et al: you can check the Diccionario de la Real Academia de la Lengua Espñalola online. If needed, use a translator online. I cannot imagine a more higher authority on this matters, though it is not perfect. Regards Gonzalo